The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
zeromeansnothing
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

nightstalker

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
zeromeansnothing
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/4/2016 Category: Science
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 610 times Debate No: 93366
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (35)
Votes (1)

 

vi_spex

Pro

a hunter, hunts its prey.. its a snake hunting a rabbit, the rabbit may not notice the hunter, and no one will blame the snake
zeromeansnothing

Con

Eden= Evolution=Choice=Seperation=Mutation=Loss (I will take the Pro position on this)
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

are you saying there are no natural animals in paradise?

paradise is balance.. hell is to much heaven
zeromeansnothing

Con

vi-spex: 'hell is too much heaven'


This is what primordial man had, ie too much heaven. Evolutionary progression brought him unsuspectingly to the exit door of this place, ie the tree of choice, the tree of options and strategy. This created permanent separation and mutation and loss. Therefore Hell is as the Eden narrative clearly states, ie a loss away from what was. Hell is exclusion from Paradise.

There are natural creatures immersed in the perfect balance of life on this earth, our Eden, the problem being that man will never be one of them again.


Do you think that the world possesses an objective morality? If it does then what is it?
Do you think the human is a 'moral entitiy' in any way and if so elaborate?
Put your cards on the table and stop slithering around, Please!

Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

earth is paradise as i see it, or balance.. before heaven or hell

joy=yes=crack coconut shell and eat
pain=no=eat coconut with shell

yes, no human is evil.. evil dosnt exist in reality

well we already did this one in the comment section..

im not sure how to specifikally define morality yet
zeromeansnothing

Con

vi_spex 'im not sure how to specifikally define morality yet'


morality is the limits of our 'goodness' ie how effectively 'good' we can become. I do not blame you struggling with this definition.


Evil is as evil does and there is plenty of it to go round. Labelling it's various genres and calibrating their comparative intensities is usually a very subjective exercise. It is a consequence of highly evolved mammalian and primate social strategies and much of it can rest on what might loosely be described as choice. I see a thread on today 'Which of the seven deadly sins is the deadliest' Religious thought has kicked this thing to death but in fairness it is a smoke and mirror undertaking to pin this thing down.


Evil is as evil does and it has many names. It is enabled by humans doing various things for a of diverse reasons,ie ambition, hatred, illness .................IMHO (for what that's worth) I know we can do better and we have done in the past but this is based on subjective optimism rather than rational observation.

vi_spex states 'joy=yes=crack coconut shell and eat
pain=no=eat coconut with shell'

This suggest to me that our 'happiness' requires our attention for it to be realized. This is very 'religiousy' an probably very true. Most things in life are step to next step. A realization of our ineptitude to avoid pitfalls, might erode our confidence and it might make us edge towards infantile 'God dependence'. I see little self confidence in this prayer

Lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from Evil
Amen

We are as we are and we need to work with what we got and in truth that might not be a lot.
I find the Jesus teachings to be very optimistic regarding the power of our potentials.
I also find them useful when offering sound advice about dealing with our weaknesses.
I will post a few examples in comments for you to 'rip to shreds'

Thank you nightstawker/dragon/snake/vi-spex
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

well you have made claims
zeromeansnothing

Con

vi_spex: 'earth is paradise as i see it, or balance.. before heaven or hell'

I see it the same way. We should attempt to repair our clumsiness to date. We should offer up a spirited effort to this cause. We need to attempt objective rationality (ie including more considerations than our own narrow ones). We should submit to wisdom and direction regarding environmental protection , ethical treatment of other life forms, population quotas, etc etc. None of this will ever be realized but that does not remove the fact that this is what we should do. The place is in a mess and getting worse by the day. It is an infested bed-sit cluttered with criminal waste extracted from an Eden project that was wonderful in its terrible pristine beauty. IMHO
Debate Round No. 4
zeromeansnothing

Con

Let me finish with this, vi_spex,

You state 'belief dosnt make anything true'

I only believe in what I see and feel. I do not jump beyond that, so no pressure to construct scenarios , just the opportunity to extract pattern and to wonder. I look for natural places that are uncrowded and this is my luxury. Birds, fish, bees, insects, weeds, trees are all 'getting on, getting on' as Seasick Steve would say. I am a Buddhist without the BS, if you like. Goodbye vi-spex and keep on keeping on debating.
Debate Round No. 5
35 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
belief dosnt make anything true
Posted by zeromeansnothing 10 months ago
zeromeansnothing
vi_spex 'i wonder what are your gods rulesi wonder what are your gods rules'

My laws are simple, I want to be what I am, ie a primate. My mantra is social integration and blissful appreciation of my surroundings while struggling with what ever happens my way. I want to dissolve back into this God thing when my race is run. Simple lethargic and peaceful bliss and gratitude.
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
i wonder what are your gods rules if you have no book
Posted by zeromeansnothing 10 months ago
zeromeansnothing
vi_spex: 'good has been, replaced with holy.. truth has been replaced, with lies.'

You are not wrong here, it is re-branding and selling it as something else!

J"germeister came to greater international attention particularly through the work of Sidney Frank, who ran an American liquor import company. He promoted the drink at the youth and student market, as a drink for parties, a quite different niche to its traditional conservative brand position in its native market.New York magazine quoted a market research firm as describing him as a 'promotional genius' for making "a liqueur with an unpronounceable name...drunk by older, blue-collar Germans as an after-dinner digestive aid...synonymous with "party"." The Mast-J"germeister company ultimately purchased Sidney Frank Importing in 2015
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
np
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
good has been, replaced with holy.. truth has been replaced, with lies.
Posted by zeromeansnothing 10 months ago
zeromeansnothing
vi-spex: 'do you just take the word of the bible on faith, to get to heaven or avoid hell?'

I take the Bible as an historical(old)document. It's origins, its written words, it's considerations intrigue me. I am amazed at the Eden origins myth and the complexity of scenarios that it presents when placed beside actual known facts about our earth and the life forms on it. I really enjoy trying to figure out the 'Jesus' phenomena as I like Roman and Greek History, Mythology and Philosophy. You can extract from this written material, basically anything you like. It is like 'Game of Thrones' in that respect. Do you read it at all? Can you imagine extracting some benefit from giving it a look? I am an atheist and I do not believe in any God yet described, Jesus if anything was either a person or an autopiographical collage of several 1st Century people. What do you think? I have a Heaven here that might turn to Hell at any moment through misfortune. My neighbour was on holiday in Spain last week at her apartment. She was swimming with her husband aged 70 when he died of a heart attack in the water beside her. Heaven and Hell for me are just a roll of the dice. Thanks for talking to me, vi-spex.
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
do you just take the word of the bible on faith, to get to heaven or avoid hell?
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
losing weight can have purpose or meaning
Posted by vi_spex 10 months ago
vi_spex
christ=see returning rise form

i talk about dogs to
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RonaldTrumpkin 10 months ago
RonaldTrumpkin
vi_spexzeromeansnothingTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro is being again a terrible troll.