The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
cheekyhobo
Con (against)
Winning
23 Points

no fixed rules for theoretical absolute minimum for things to believed for salvation

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/24/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 865 times Debate No: 2886
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (8)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

no fixed rules for theoretical absolute minimum for things to believed for salvation

fundamentalist christians have a probelm.

what's the absolute minimum that a new christian or nonlearned christian would have to believe to be saved? not speaking in terms of a christian who's tryihg to do the absolute minimum just to skae by or are proactively refusing a belief... but simply hristians who don't know better.

i'd ask the fundamentalist "is it enough for them to say they believe that jesus existed?" and they'd say no as demons do that. i'd ask if it's enough that they believe he's God, and many would say not enough as demons rpobably do that.
so, they say they start listing things that should be believed. but then, i point out that that list is dogmatic like a creed or church or something, something fundamenralists don't like to be, or at least is severlly limiting who can be saved giving that a list is by definition is exclusive of those who don't match every belief yet. so, they point out a blief like "savior".

but, then i point out that many believe in savior but odn't really know what that means. if you explain atonement or eevn the idea, they have no idea what you're talking about... both new and unleared christians (there are many believe me, and are probably the rule rather than the exception) are clueless.
some fundies will insist that the spefici notion of atonement savior must be believed (and say to hell with the good majority or great minority of christians who are wishy washy in their understanding), some will say any form of savior as long as a notion genereally is believed.

but then i'll point out that the bible says "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and that he rose from the dead and you'll be saved" and they'll acknowledge that "lord" is kind of vague for a new and unlearned christians, and so maybe they don't have to believe savior.

so, then others will have to concede that it's simply not possible to have a dogmatic rule and perhaps that person doesn't have to believe "savior" yet... cause many new and unleare christiians don't really know what they're being saved from or anything else or know to say they have a "savior" but do say "lord" etc.

at least... really the rule is that you must be good intentioned, and generally believe something about Jesus. unless you dn't care about new and unlearned christians. only God can really know. there's no way to be fundamentalist about the requirements that must be believed, speficially, for those situations.
i'd concede though that if they reject a teaching, perhaps they could be damned, for the sake of argument only thought.

(personally most of this is just fluff to me... i'm just trying to get dogmatics out of their rigid shell)
cheekyhobo

Con

I will defend the Christian faith. But if I fail in doing such, I hope that others will take my place and prove that Christianity is the way to eternal salvation.

Your whole argument, (well, your onslaught of questions) comes from this. "i'd ask the fundamentalist "is it enough for them to say they believe that jesus existed?" and they'd say no as demons do that." Correct. I will agree 100%

One must believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for everyone's sins. Then, one must be willing to follow Jesus Christ, or at least listen. To understand that he is the end-all-be-all. Action is not REQUIRED but rather faith that Jesus Christ is the savior and that God sent his only son to earth to die for us. Demons know and believe this. But one must have the intent to follow Jesus Christ and his teachings. It all bouls down to belief and faith.
- Cheeks
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
cheekyhobo

Con

My arguments still stand tall and proud! Vote con for a cheekier debate site! Let the games begin! To infinity and beyond to the next galaxy over and over and over!!!!
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
cheekyhobo

Con

Vote for me because my opponent failed to answer my arguments. So yeah, enjoy. I like cheese, yes I do, I like cheese, how about you?
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by sadolite 9 years ago
sadolite
Being saved is not easy as some would believe, you also have to accept and follow the teachings of Christ, that's the hard part, Merely saying you accept Christ is easy.
Posted by cheekyhobo 9 years ago
cheekyhobo
Argh.. "bouls" should be "boils" in my last sentence. lol.
Posted by Gao 9 years ago
Gao
it saddens me to hear you speak of faith as though it can be weighed. it can not. there is no min. nor max. there is faith or no faith.
Posted by byebyepats 9 years ago
byebyepats
I agree with the last comment. And honestly, even if you reworded EVERYTHING, this debate is pointless. Why do people keep debating this topic over and over. I think its down right silly.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
I don't mean to be mean or anything....

But please learn english... Not only is your resolution oddly worded and, frankly, poor english... your rhetoric is misspelled frequently and doesn't make sense.
Posted by simmyjaye 9 years ago
simmyjaye
The subject of your debate is one of the (initial) reasons I wavered in my Christian belief, before eventually rejecting it completely.

The Bible is such a contradictory book that it is little surprise no clear 'rules' can be drawn from it.

Most people at my church believed that a rapist who believed in God would go to heaven, while my atheist awfully-nice friend was doomed to hell. They weren't polite enough to say this directly, but it was hinted at.

As to whether these (examples) of "rules" are correct as far as the bible is concerned, I can't be sure.

All I know is, if any variation on these rules is actually true, then the universe is a very disturbing one indeed, which is why I comfortably opted out of faith in any of it.

If God runs the universe with rules such as these, then he's clearly a nutcase.
Posted by Statesman 9 years ago
Statesman
I can't really debate you on this because I think most fundamentalist christians do have a problem with the way they "win" converts. I know people who were "saved" and had no understanding of the Gospel. This is what happens when you turn a church into a shopping mall where everyone can come and hear what they want to hear. Christians should be unafraid to tell people what they don't want to hear. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Posted by Statesman 9 years ago
Statesman
I think that the downfall of the modern church is that they compromise on issues to get more people to attend and become members. That's their only purpose. I have no problem telling someone that the Bible says that they must believe that Jesus is GOD. Believe that He died on the cross as the only way to save them of their sins. They must truly repent of their sins. Meaning that they not only are sorry for them but they are turning from them. Nobody will be perfect but they must continue to make progress in leading a more holy life. If you don't do all these things then the Bible says you will go to Hell.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by dairygirl4u2c 9 years ago
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