The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
danielawesome12
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

not clear what minimal faith is needed for salvation, for christians

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/16/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 479 times Debate No: 32573
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

what the absolute minimum needed to believe is not clear. this debate is beyond the "faith v works" debate and is simply in the realm of what faith is required to be saved. i am not saying this in terms of seeking to do or believe the minimum such as to "do as little as i have to to get saved".

i ask christians and they say "believe in jesus". then i point out that the devil does as even the bible says. so they say believe he's your savior. then i point out that some believe that different people see that differently... a good message or atonement etc. a fundamentalist would say a good message is not sufficient. so... you have to believe in atonement is one element. but then there's various beliefs in atonement, "christus victor" v "substitionary" etc.
but then the bible has lots of places where it says what to believe. "confess with your lips that he is lord and believe that he has risen and you will be saved". that doesn't really define what "Lord" is though, thoug h in any case all this atonement stuff may not be necessary after all. but what if they do beleive in atonement and all this other stuff, but dont' know to believe that he was risen? or what if they find that piece of evidence insufficient for belief but believe everything else? most christians just say "believe he's savior and you're good".
and what if you don't like this "savior" stuff given it's a loaded word. what if you just "relied" on Jesus instead, and acknowledged that you're a sinner, wouldn't that be enough? well it's not confesing and beleiving all that stuff, though no one said that was teh end all be all of what's required.
some don't believe he's god... is that okay? a dogamatic would start to list things you must believe. then i point out that that's dogmatic, and most would shy away from that. if it's too short though, they don't like the vagueness or the possibilities they are forgoing for the sake of an easy answer... it's a brutal issue when you get down to it. they want to have their cake... easy answer... and eat it too.. not giving a clear answer.
you have people who are new to the religion and one wouldn think couldn't be held responsible to everything to a T, and you have those who have honest disagreements over what doctrines should be belieeved and what shouldn't. and even if they knew of one doctrine that is considered standard and rejected what tehy knew... what is the minimum they'd have to believe? they can do the "confess with your mouth" stuff and reject say the trinity and be condemned for it?
basically everyone is at different stages. it seems the right conclusion is it depends on hwere you are in your walk.

so... beyond the whole faith v works debate.. even in terms of faith... what one must believe is not clear or taught very well.
danielawesome12

Con

Trust me, I wouldn't worry about salvation if I were you, you seem like your a good christian compared to most, as for a minimium faith I'd say just believe he exists and is the savior, It's ok to doubt every now and then as long as you know in your heart.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

what if you do what the bible says, confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and confess w your mouth that he was risen from the dead? that from the bible doesn't say anything about savior. what if you don't know any better or what if you have an honest disagreement about what savior means etc... so just did that thing from the bible or "relied" on Jesus instead?
I can't see how to peg requirements, but still can't get too vague. seems undefineable.
danielawesome12

Con

If you believe in the bible the ideal that Jesus is the savior, and what a savior is should be clear
(in Christianity) God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls
There is no minimal faith in reality you believe or you don't and you be faithful as possible.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

we could take that approach, but it is pretty vague. a lot of people wouldn't like it.
good day to you
danielawesome12

Con

correction: The Bible's approach isn't vague, a lot of people would agree next time don't make the debate title a question and you won't get a "vague" answer.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by danielawesome12 3 years ago
danielawesome12
please don't make your debate a question next time :0
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
id worry more about our quest for discerning truth. screw rankings, formality, etc.
Posted by YYW 3 years ago
YYW
I would take this, but I think my ELO might drop even when I won.
No votes have been placed for this debate.