The Instigator
kibbles
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
TheSkeptic
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

obama says he is a christian and has morals??

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
TheSkeptic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/9/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,140 times Debate No: 8196
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

kibbles

Pro

Hello to who ever accepts this, I hope this will be a good debate. :) Good luck.

and I will let my opponent go first.
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for creating this debate and hopefully this debate becomes fruitful. To start off I want to first point out the ambiguity of the resolution - is she saying Obama is Christian with morals or is she saying Obama ISN'T a Christian with morals? Luckily, she cleared up the confusion in the comment section, stating that she is "arguing [Obama] does not have morals." That said, I shall also assume that she is arguing that Obama is not Christian as well.

However, do note the crucial usage of the word "and". This means if I effectively show Obama is a Christian OR has moral values, then I have won this debate. But before we get started, definitions are in place:

[Obama]
[http://www.whitehouse.gov...]

Barack H. Obama is the 44th President of the United States.

[Christian]
[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

1 a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1): disciple 2 (2): a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3): a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

[Morals]
[http://www.merriam-webster.com...[2]]

2plural a: moral practices or teachings : modes of conduct b: ethics

This definition is in context with my opponent's statement, which can roughly be translated into "Obama has no moral values". Do realize that since my opponent has failed to put down the definitions in the beginning, it is my right to. If she has any contentions, then she can do so in her 2nd Round. Now let's begin:

====================
Obama - Christian Belief
====================

All reliable sources state that Obama is a Christian[1][2], and my sources are only a few. If you have any incriminating evidence or reason to show otherwise, then I humbly await.

====================
Obama - Moral Values
====================

Obama has many moral values, ranging from his belief in pro-choice[2] to his belief that marriage is only for heterosexual couples, though gays can engage in civil unions that give full and equal benefits[3]. These are only some of his many moral values, so this point is obviously fulfilled.

====================
Conclusion
====================

Needless to say, my opponent has a BIG BURDEN. Let's see what happens ;D

---Referneces---
1. http://www.timesonline.co.uk...
2. http://www.time.com...
3. http://www.cnn.com...
Debate Round No. 1
kibbles

Pro

First off I would like to thank my opponent for accepting.
And I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought I made myself clear on where I stood.

1. obama did 'not' acknowledge the National Day of Prayer.
Put in place by -Ronald Reagan 1952. (national day of prayer was day to be brought together to bring unity.
yet again a fact not standing up for his faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.nelsonguirado.com...

And also my opponent stated that he had morals based on, his views on abortion and gays.
Which is the complete opposite. (Exodus 21:22.)
Since this debate is about whether obama has morals and stands by his faith.

2. If you are truly a Christian and have morals. and just have a respect for human life. Then you are against abortion. Period. And also as president it is his duty to uphold the law, and protect the innocent. With choosing to elect
vice presidential candidate Joe Biden, a Catholic, and for his position on abortion. Biden has said, "I'm prepared as a matter of faith, to accept that life begins at conception," but, he said, "for me to impose that judgment on others is inappropriate in a pluralistic society."
So he believes life starts at conception, but yet isn't going to stand up for what's right. Because that would be "imposing" ?? Even if it's not right.
The decisions that obama is making, are clear he is not led by his "morals" or faith. -That he professes to have.

3. He does NOT speak the truth, He "says" he voted on protecting the infants who survived an abortion, But he actually voted 'against' a law. =Known as the born alive infant protection act.=
SO the argument here is, that no person with good and honest morals, could say its ok, to go ahead and proceed to kill a baby that's clearly alive! Morals??

So this is just one of his views/actions that does 'not' go along with Christianity.
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for her response. I will refute her arguments in the order she has listed them so it will be convenient for both us and the readers.

====================
Obama did not acknowledge the National Day of Prayer
====================

Just because Obama did not acknowledge the National Day of Prayer does not mean he isn't Christian. Many previous Presidents who were Christian did not acknowledge it as well, such as Bill Clinton. And for those who did, they only celebrated it ONCE - even Ronald Reagan. So really, the only time the National Day of Prayer was treated as a "tradition" was by George W. Bush[1]. Just because Obama doesn't celebrate it once he gets bashed for it? While every other president doesn't? That is simply a double standard.

Furthermore, Obama doesn't NEED to acknowledge the event to be considered a Christian. There is a controversy over even having the event sponsored by the government, since it violates the First Amendment[2]. So while Obama is Christian, he probably doesn't acknowledge it out of respect of the First Amendment.

====================
Obama's stance on abortion
====================

My opponent states that if you are a Christian, then you have to be against abortion. Why so? Why should her theological interpretation of Christianity be superior to Obama's?

Secondly, he may be against abortion in a religious point of view, but he probably realizes that there is a DISTINCT separation between church and state. Saying "God says so" doesn't cut it in politics.

====================
Obama's vote agsint the "born alive infant protection act"
====================

If my opponent did her research, then she would've realized that the reason he didn't vote for such acts is because the wording is precarious - which could very possibly lead to intruding on the rights of women in certain situations. When dealing with politics, things like this always arise. As Obama states himself, it is the "technical language" that bothers him[3].

====================
Obama has no moral values
====================

My opponent has conceded this point - whether or not she agrees with his values it doesn't matter. He still HAS SOME. Therefore, this burden has been fulfilled and already the resolution can be negated.

====================
Conclusion
====================

Even if we are to assume that my opponent is correct on everything related to Obama and his faith, her contention that he has no morals falls very short.

---References---
1. http://www.rightwingwatch.org...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
Debate Round No. 2
kibbles

Pro

kibbles forfeited this round.
TheSkeptic

Con

*GASP*

A forfeit :(

VOTE CON.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Volkov 7 years ago
Volkov
Define 'morals'
Posted by kibbles 7 years ago
kibbles
I am arguing that he does not have morals.
Posted by Volkov 7 years ago
Volkov
I'm not quite sure what you're arguing... that Obama is Christian and has morals, or that its *questionable* if he is Christian and has morals.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by conservativegor 7 years ago
conservativegor
kibblesTheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
kibblesTheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
kibblesTheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by TheSkeptic 7 years ago
TheSkeptic
kibblesTheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07