The Instigator
onenestruth
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Scyrone
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

oneness vs trinity

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/9/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,393 times Debate No: 15269
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (2)

 

onenestruth

Pro

there is no trinity
Scyrone

Con

There is a trinity.

A quality of something being "is" is existence. For example, Obama is a President.

The above sentence implies that Obama, in his existence, has attained the title and position of President. To Obama him being President exists. The parameters of existence are two fold. Existence must either be possible in physical form or imaginable form. An example of existence in a physical form is a CD. A CD "is". A CD "exists", because I can touch it and see it and use it to interact with other objects. An example of imaginable existence is Darth Vader. Darth Vader does not truly exist in physical form. He is in an imagined world with imagined people with an imagined story. Yet we can think of him and when referenced we know whom he is and what the person referencing him is talking about.

And example of what cannot exist is a circle with a 90 degree corner on it. You can think of the words and you can put a corner onto a circle, yet it is impossible to view them both together. For once you do put a corner on a circle it is no longer a circle. Therefore, a circle with a 90 degree corner does not exist.

Let us examine my opponent's statement: "there is no trinity". Yet, even if imagined, I can see three things. I ca think of myself. I have a head, a body, and two legs. Yet I am one being with three specific areas of being as well. Another example of trinity could be the Platonic Government (mentioned in his book, "The Republic"). The Republic is one government, but their are three classes; the ruling class, the soldiers, and the workers. Three things working together to make one society. Even in Christianity, we can use the idea that God is three things; the father of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ himself, and a spirit which lives inside of us all. If we were to think Christianity was true, then this would be possible. Even if it wasn't true, the idea still exists.
Debate Round No. 1
onenestruth

Pro

okay first of all were talking about the biblical trinity do you know that or no? sorry i didn't lay down a better foundation on what i was trying to debate. okay you used your body for an example to show a trinity but that is not a good illustration because i mite have many roles as a human but my body is not three persons its one person. if you had a different idea on what we were suppose to argue i am sorry i will understand if you want to stop because i would like to discuss bible
Scyrone

Con

Let us closely look at my opponent's arguments. He first says this is the biblical trinity. If the biblical trinity does not exist then how is he able to reference it? He goes on to say he is sorry for not laying the foundation of his arguments down better. I disagree and do not accept his apology. He did not lay down ANY arguments. He made a statement, "there is no trinity". Statements are not arguments. An argument is created from a multiple of sources of thought and understanding to attempt to create a position (or an opposition to what is being said).

He then goes on to say that it is not a good illustration of the trinity because his role as a human has many roles, but it is not three people. This means that he believes that it exists, but is merely not a good illustration of what is true.

He then goes onto say if I had a different idea of what we are supposed to talk about, then he is sorry and he will stop.

Do not stop, my oh so intelligent opponent! I would not want your arguments to be destroyed! All that hard work (typing out that paragraph for five minutes and that sentence for a few seconds) should not go to waste on such intellect as yours! I am so deeply sorry for my behavior. Because honestly, I knew exactly what you were talking about, yet I refused to acknowledge it because there was simply no explanation. It is COMPLETELY my FAULT that you wrote a single sentence, made no arguments, and even in response to my argument, made no arguments yourself.

For example, the definitions of trinity:

"the cardinal number that is the sum of one and one and one"

"the union of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost in one Godhead"

"three people considered as a unit"

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu... <------- (the only source so far)

I will now argue against the Biblical trinity, merely to show my opponent that his one argument will not break through my defense made of arguments which can be shambled if one merely learns to read :P

I am not a Christian. I do not think neither the trinity nor oneness exist. Yet I will show you why the trinity does exist.

In the Bible, Jesus was claimed to be the son of God. Just after Jesus had baptized someone in a lake (don't know who, because honestly I don't believe that half drowning someone in magical water which was used as a toilet upstream is a good practice to do). Then the heavens opened up and this verse was put into the Bible: Mark 1:11 "And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Now tell me, how is it possible that a voice comes from the sky, tells the people he is his son, and then you claim that this is not true merely because the title of the debate said so? Give me a break. It says right in your dam Bible that this is true :P

1 Corinthians 6:19

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

John 4:24:

"God is a Spirit."

1 Timothy 3:16

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Ladies and gentlemen, I have hence argued the trinity directly from the Bible of my opponent (the beliefs that my opponent holds).
Debate Round No. 2
onenestruth

Pro

THAT WAS SO WEAK I REALLY THINK YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT FIRST OF ALL I NEVER SAID I BELIEVED IN A TRINITY ALL IM SAYING IS THAT THE CLASSIC DEFINITION FOR THE WORD TRINITY USED BY SCHOLARS they DO NOT BELIEVE IT THE WAY YOU PRESENT IT BUT THATS FINE THERE JUST AS CONFUSED AS YOU ARE. NOW YOU USED A BIBLE THAT IS TRANSLATED FROM JEHOVAHS WITNESS THAT DENY JESUS BIEN GOD SO IF YOUR GOING TO QUOTE SCRIPTURE LETS GO TO THE KING JAMES WHICH IS THE MOST ACCURATE IT AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE ARGUE THE WHOLE TRANSLATION ISSUE THAT SUBJECT WE COULD IN ANOTHER DEBATE BUT LETS FOCUS ON THE SCRIPTURES. I FIND WHAT YOUR SAYING VERY DUMB Jesus is very much GOD ILL SHOW U the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14. TIMOTHY 3:16 GOD CAME IN THE FLESH. God and our Savior Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1. --Isaiah 9:6 CALLS JESUS THE EVERLASTING FATHER THE MIGHTY GOD. SO YOU SEE IN THE BOOK OF JOHN 14 JESUS SAYS iF YOU SEEn ME YOU SEEN THE FATHER . ima now go over your scriptures that dont give a trinity. you gave me where jesus got done getting baptized and the heavens opened and the spirit of god descended over him like a dove. if you notice it didnt say a different person or a different god it said the spirit of god not a different one and like a dove not an actual dove flying around in circles then it said says the father spoke this is my beloved son in WHOM i am well pleased in. wait wait notice it said in whom i am well pleased IN he was inside jesus collosians 2:9 in jesus dwelleth all the fulness of the godhead . so if you say there is a trinity and say jesus is god thats wierd becausee that would mean god prayed to another god but sorry that cant happen god dont need to pray he answers them so let me explain why jesus prayed because he was god in the flesh he was a normal man he had to pray to set the examle others wise that would make him un perfect so he too pray. plus he had no fleshly father therfore the spirit caused the conception therfore he is the son of god in referring to his humanity.
Scyrone

Con

I would like to congratulate my opponent on posting an argument, however illegible it was. I apologize for making you so angry that you forgot to put periods in most of your sentences and forgot that your "caps lock" button was on during the first half of your argument. Your sight serves you so well in that aspect. I am happy to be under such a sensible person in this debate. No doubt you will win the grammar vote by a landslide.

Let us examine your well thought out arguments:

"ALL IM SAYING IS THAT THE CLASSIC DEFINITION FOR THE WORD TRINITY USED BY SCHOLARS they DO NOT BELIEVE IT THE WAY YOU PRESENT IT"

My first question is how did you get the "they" in there with the small letters while everything else is capital letters? Was this on purpose?

For those whom refuse to read caps lock posts (I don't blame you) my opponent basically said that my definition of the word "trinity" is not the "classic definition for the word trinity used by scholars" and "they do not believe it the way you [as in me] present it". Unfortunately, no opposing definition was brought out. Clearly, my opponent is psychic and I am merely unfit to interpret this psychic information of the definition of trinity. Seeing as though he is above us all, we must stick with my lowly human definition of trinity (which included a religious standpoint).

"BUT THATS FINE THERE JUST AS CONFUSED AS YOU ARE."

And supposedly the scholars are also as confused as I am on the definition. This is merely another example of my opponents psychic superiority. There is no way even biblical scholars could interpret his Jedi mind tricks.

"NOW YOU USED A BIBLE THAT IS TRANSLATED FROM JEHOVAHS WITNESS THAT DENY JESUS BIEN GOD SO IF YOUR GOING TO QUOTE SCRIPTURE LETS GO TO THE KING JAMES WHICH IS THE MOST ACCURATE"

I agree. I will stop using my inferior Bible and go to the King James Version, obviously written by superior beings such as yourself.

"I FIND WHAT YOUR SAYING VERY DUMB"

I quoted scripture. How dare you doubt your own force sensitivity! You might be the chosen one!

"TIMOTHY 3:16 GOD CAME IN THE FLESH"

So according to you, God came to the Earth in the flesh.

"God and our Savior Jesus Christ."

Oh, so you mean God AND Jesus came to Earth, two different people as one being. I see the light now! The trinity does not exist! It is rather the duality exists, correct?

"JOHN 14 JESUS SAYS iF YOU SEEn ME YOU SEEN THE FATHER"

I knew you would come out to support me.

"if you notice it didnt say a different person or a different god it said the spirit of god"

The spirit of God? So first you say God came here in the flesh. Then you say it was God and our Savior Jesus Christ. Then you confirm that, and now you are saying God is also a spirit? So he is God, Jesus, and Spirit (a.k.a. the trinity)?

"collosians 2:9 in jesus dwelleth all the fulness of the godhead"

So a spirit was inside Jesus? And this spirit represents God? Is my psychic highness contradicting himself?

"so if you say there is a trinity and say jesus is god thats wierd becausee that would mean god prayed to another god"

Jesus is a different entity that makes up a single entity when combined with two other entities. Kinda like the megazoid from the original Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers. Yet you are saying I can't say Jesus and God are together, because then God prayed to another God? What's to stop him from praying to his father, himself?

"but sorry that cant happen god dont need to pray he answers them so let me explain why jesus prayed because he was god in the flesh he was a normal man he had to pray to set the examle others wise that would make him un perfect so he too pray"

I still don't forgive you. But I believe I understand you now. God doesn't need to pray because he answers prayers. Yet Jesus prayed, but only to show others how to do it. Because we all know it's so hard to close your eyes and lean your head down to the ground. But also, if he didn't show them how to pray, he would be imperfect. So somehow you connected being perfect with praying and viola!

"he had no fleshly father therfore the spirit caused the conception therfore he is the son of god in referring to his humanity."

So you admit there is a Jesus, there is a God, and there is a spirit, and you say they are all the same person. You just admitted there are three different people whom are all the same people . . . . . that is the definition of trinity.

Honestly, I acted like an a$$ because I thought this kid deserves at least one point on the side of best conduct. Although that CAPS LOCK MIGHT HURT YOU SOMEWHAT!!!!
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
onenestruthScyroneTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO NEEDS TO LEARN THE IMPORTANCE OF FOUNDATIONAL OPENINGS AND NOT COMPLAIN AND USE ALL CAPS TO PROTEST AN EXPLOIT OF SAID WEAKNESS.
Vote Placed by pheonixduprese 5 years ago
pheonixduprese
onenestruthScyroneTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: -facepalm- Uhh.