The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
gomergcc
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

only personal physical experience of now is real

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
gomergcc
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/27/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 437 times Debate No: 65938
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

vi_spex

Pro

my personal physical experience of now is everything, and anywhere beyond that is the reflection of nothing
gomergcc

Con

Human beings do not experience most of the world around them. In addition, many of human experience is an a mixture of reality and imagination. "Only personal physical experience of now is real", is a straw man argument that many people with auditory and visual hallucinations use; to explain how they have no mental heath issues. Reality is the universe how it is. Physical experience is how perception of that universe. Part of the human condition is that physical experience my not be real. While my physical experience is that of having a debate on my computer it may not be real. I might have lost my mental facilities. The reality is that I might be in the local mental heath ward in a padded room. It is a hard fact that all of us most come to when trying to understand the nature of reality.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

I know I am typing these words on my keyboard and reading them on my screen, I don't have to imagine it, and if you were here you wouldn't either, but online chat is based on assumptions or you get no where

you have to imagine you are in a dream, and imagination is false, and if you can imagine anything, you are not a in a padded room.. and that suggestion is insane, as if you are are unable to move your arms out of bear stupidity you are laying there drooling in a room..

there is no certainty beyond physical experience and the absolutes, and belief is always false
gomergcc

Con

I agree there is no certainty beyond ones own personal physical experience and perception. That does not make it true or real. Reality is absolute. It is beyond the individual and the limitations of personal experience or perception.

While you have certainty enough to claim you know you are typing words on your computer, that may not be the the truth of reality. You will never know if it is or is not. Knowledge of the truth of reality is something that is beyond what an individual can know. If humans could know what is real than there would be no need for philosophy, religion, or debate. The answer would be clear and absolute. Debates like if there is a God would never happen. God is or is not there. One answer is real the other is false.

Physical experience can not be what is real because I have the perception that such theological debates are there. This means my own physical experience admits that it does not know with 100% certainty what is real. Even if that is my own creation than I have chosen to ignore what is real and add in some false hood. I can never be 100% sure what answer is the right one and what answer is my self created falsehood.

Beliefs can not always be false because then if it is true then you have a correct belief in the falsehood of beliefs.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

experience is perception, as they can not exist without each other

absolute=NO other option, that's why you cant argue that you can see these words on the screen with your eyes closed, as its absolute, unless you have holes in your eye lids or something crazy, so its the cause and effect relation that is absolute not necessarily the explanation, as one can say well god could make you eyes lids glass...

existence is absolute, but absolute is the balancing point between possible and impossible, where as absolute means no other possibility, not possible and not impossible, therefore reality is not possible and its not impossible, it is no other option, as it is happening

true cause and effect relations only happen in reality, so me having my eyes open to read is a confirmation that I am right

there is no truth in reality, truth can only be in the past, and I have to remember what happened 2 seconds ago, reality is true, and true is only now

know=physical experience of now, and know is no other option

know is not true? belief is false, and knowledge is truth. know is the balancing point between belief and knowledge, 1 and 0

religion is necessary even if you know the absolutes, like hospitals

a first cause is impossible so god is impossible. a cause that didn't cause anything is not a cause, so a first cause would be caused by a cause that is not a cause
gomergcc

Con

The rebuttal covered may topics and will will try to answer them point.

"experience is perception, as they can not exist without each other"
While I agree they cant exist with out each other; experience is the sum total of ones perception. I used perception when talking about a singular event and experience when talking about many events in ones life.

"absolute=NO other option, that's why you cant argue that you can see these words on the screen with your eyes closed, as its absolute, unless you have holes in your eye lids or something crazy, so its the cause and effect relation that is absolute not necessarily the explanation, as one can say well god could make you eyes lids glass..."

The other options is a Dissociative disorder. That allows for someones personal perception to be that they can see the words with there eyes closed, that God has made there eye lids out of glass, or to be on a computer having a debate that is not really happening. This is been one of my central arguments against ones personal physical experience of now being only what is real.

"existence is absolute, but absolute is the balancing point between possible and impossible, where as absolute means no other possibility, not possible and not impossible, therefore reality is not possible and its not impossible, it is no other option, as it is happening"
The impossible is everything not happening. Its impossible for something not happening to be happening. Even if your personal perception tells you otherwise.

"true cause and effect relations only happen in reality, so me having my eyes open to read is a confirmation that I am right"
There is no false cause and effects. If I trip in a dream the effect is I fall in my dream. Its still a true cause and effect. Me falling in my dream is still the effect of me tripping in my dream. Even if neither event really happened.

"there is no truth in reality, truth can only be in the past, and I have to remember what happened 2 seconds ago, reality is true, and true is only now"
In part I would state that general relativity teaches us that time is not liner and that the past, present, and future are more fluid. Truth and reality happen faster than your memory. Reality and truth are not fixed to time. There is a reality and truth of what happened in the the past. Your memory may not show the reality and truth of that moment. You state true is only now. How does the passage of time effect its truthfulness.

"know=physical experience of now, and know is no other option"
Honestly I don't understand this statement. Your stating the know means both the physical experience of now and that it means no other option. Are you saying that there is no other option than the physical experience of now. That the word has both definitions. With both ways of thinking about it I am still unclear of your meaning.

"know is not true? belief is false, and knowledge is truth. know is the balancing point between belief and knowledge, 1 and 0"
You only believe you know. You may not know. All of your existence is a belief. One that may or may not be true.

"religion is necessary even if you know the absolutes, like hospitals"
Religion and hospitals are not necessarily. There was no hospitals before 230 BC. With out quantifying statement nothing is necessary. Yes food is necessary for me to survive but I do have the option not to eat. I would not like to do it admittedly.

"a first cause is impossible so god is impossible. a cause that didn't cause anything is not a cause, so a first cause would be caused by a cause that is not a cause"
Cause an effect are not liner. Some times effect happens first. Particle accelerators experince this every once in a while. While a partical is being accelerated to smash another paticle the stationary particle will explode before the accelerated partical hits it. Then when the stationary partical reaches were the stationary partical was it will explode even though nothing is there any more. The first effect may have happened before the first cause. This is why quantum mechanics is such a mind warp.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

everything and nothing is defined by experience, singularity is the opposite of humanity

if you perceive it you experience it

that is a belief, they can not actually read the words, i know logic, therefore i know i can reason, there is no logic in fantasy so there is no knowing cause and effect in my imagination

if i am in a simulation, there is nothing to simulate, where as because i can simulate something, means there is true and false, so something is real

on a higher level, the future is possible, so i know i am in my imagination when i cant imagine anything

the past is impossible because you can never experience it again, and reality is absolute which means there is no other option, so that includes impossible, therefore its impossible for you to close your eyes and read these words on the screen

imagination is false, you cant imagine reality, so cause and effect doesn't apply, its a simulation, reason, the concept of logic, it might be true that its happening in your false imagination thou

the only effect in your imagination is emotion caused by your thoughts, if what happened in your imagination was true you should die when you jump off a cliff and splatter on the ground

only the time of now is real, the future and past dosnt matter, and matter is space and space is time, like air.

there is no reality in the past, neither in the future, to say 5 seconds ahead of now is real is saying 5 seconds ahead of reality is real, as i have to imagine it

"know=physical experience of now, and know is no other option"
seeing with your physical eyes is knowing, you have 5 senses, and there is no other option for you then to look at these words on the screen with your eyes if that is your only option, THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION, absolute, so its impossible for you to read on till the end of this message with your eyes closed

belief is the opposite of knowledge, know is the balancing point between belief and knowledge, true is the opposite of false and truth, 0 and 1

belief=False=future
know=true=now
knowledge=truth=past

its true i am here now, so i must have gotten here somehow, and the future is unknown

i was stating my opinion when saying hospitals are necessary, i think they are, i like em! :)

natural is necessary

an effect that wasn't caused has no effect, anything else is a lie

particles, atoms, the world, galaxies, a universe, all imaginary, not real
gomergcc

Con

DISCLAIMER: I am a person that believes in respecting the person I am debating no matter what there stance is. If you are reading this please vote for me so that I can have someone better to debate. I have tried my best not to insult the other side but at this point its like I am just getting gibberish back as a rebuttal. I am annoyed and it shows*

"everything and nothing is defined by experience, singularity is the opposite of humanity"

The universe as a whole cares very little about your personal experience. Singularity is not the opposite of humanity. Unless you don"t believe your human

"if you perceive it you experience it"
I already covered my agreement with you

"that is a belief, they can not actually read the words, i know logic, therefore i know i can reason, there is no logic in fantasy so there is no knowing cause and effect in my imagination"
What is a belief? Who are they? The first two statements don't connect to anything else in this. Fantasy is perfectly logical. It is the human brains way of brainstorming, copping with stress, and bringing subconscious thoughts to the conscious mind.

"if i am in a simulation, there is nothing to simulate, where as because i can simulate something, means there is true and false, so something is real"
A simulation is fantasy and you just argued against there being fantasy. Now your are arguing that fantasy proves reality. I cant debate if you pick both sides of an issue.

"on a higher level, the future is possible, so i know i am in my imagination when i cant imagine anything"
On what higher level are talking about? If you cant imagine anything then your not in your imagination. This is like saying I know I am in my car because I am not inside it.

"the past is impossible because you can never experience it again, and reality is absolute which means there is no other option, so that includes impossible, therefore its impossible for you to close your eyes and read these words on the screen"
I am not even going to touch your comments on the past. You did just just prove my argument though. My last rebuttal claimed you can experience that you can see through your eye lids but that is not possible so your experience is not reality.

"imagination is false, you cant imagine reality, so cause and effect doesn't apply, its a simulation, reason, the concept of logic, it might be true that its happening in your false imagination thou"
There is no sentence or statements in this section. This is 6 parts of statements smashed together in a unreadable format.

"the only effect in your imagination is emotion caused by your thoughts, if what happened in your imagination was true you should die when you jump off a cliff and splatter on the ground"
You then you agree that things that happen in your head are not necessarily real again proving my side correct.

"only the time of now is real, the future and past dosnt matter, and matter is space and space is time, like air."
OK this states that everything is time like air. WHAT?!?!

"there is no reality in the past, neither in the future, to say 5 seconds ahead of now is real is saying 5 seconds ahead of reality is real, as i have to imagine it"
Couldn't you not imagine anything for 5 seconds?

"know=physical experience of now, and know is no other option"
seeing with your physical eyes is knowing, you have 5 senses, and there is no other option for you then to look at these words on the screen with your eyes if that is your only option, THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION, absolute, so its impossible for you to read on till the end of this message with your eyes closed"
You you yet again agree that things that happen in your head are not necessarily real again proving my side correct.

"belief is the opposite of knowledge, know is the balancing point between belief and knowledge, true is the opposite of false and truth, 0 and 1

belief=False=future
know=true=now
knowledge=truth=past"
This says Truth=past/now Know/ledge=true truth false= future belief. Leaves me wondering how that means anything.

"its true i am here now, so i must have gotten here somehow, and the future is unknown"
What is true? Well you just argued you didn"t get here somehow because that the past and it never happened.

"i was stating my opinion when saying hospitals are necessary, i think they are, i like em! :)"
What does that have to do with the nature of reality?

natural is necessary
What does that have to do with the nature of reality?

an effect that wasn't caused has no effect, anything else is a lie
What does that have to do with the order they happen?

particles, atoms, the world, galaxies, a universe, all imaginary, not real
The debate was centered around you making an argument that that is true. I really have no idea how this nonsensical argument that I you just randomly state unconnected things getting you to that goal, or how switching to my side of the debate does.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

the universe is imaginary, and to believe in it is the same as believing in god

you claimed some with a disorder believe they could see with their eyes closed..

belief=be lie=false
false=anywhere beyond my personal physical experience of now

cause+effect=logic, your thoughts don't have logic like you think it does

if you jump of a cliff what determines you splat is cause and effect, logic, therefore it would be unreasonable unless you want to die, true logic is matter

belief=expectation=hypnosis=subconscious mind=matrix

i can imagine the absolutes, and are you trying to say fantasy dosnt exist?

future=imagination=possibility

because its not possible to see through my eye lids means its absolute, no other option, i have to open them to see reality

reason is the concept of cause and effect, logic, and concepts are imaginary, not real

anything i imagine is false, read the headline..

matter is the balancing point between space and time, so matter is space and time, and information exist beyond space and time

there is no time in my imagination, i am not experiencing time in there, i can set everything in slow motion or freeze "time"

read the head line

=(is, equal)
+(and)

so know is now is true is nature is matter is real is transformation is random not intended is life
gomergcc

Con

I will close with a quote:
"You can always tell when someone isn't telling the truth, because he doesn't speak clearly. Euphemism is a cover for either ignorance or dishonesty. In other words, if you can't state it in a clear simple declarative sentence, then either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are trying to prevent me from understanding what you are talking about, and both bug me."
Tucker Carlson, in an advertisement for his TV program "Unfiltered" on Public Television, August 6 to 27, 2004.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
vi_spexgomergccTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: pro didn't make a lot of sense and was very confusing.