The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
10 Points
The Contender
danny445
Con (against)
Winning
29 Points

outsourcing good

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/21/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,352 times Debate No: 2849
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (9)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

outsourcing. i used to be against it, but i want to argue some reasons for it that i have been thinking of.

if companies can save money, even though we lose some wealth ot foreign nations, the money saved ultimately is reinvested. that leads to innovation. that means that more things are made, different things. if more things are made, that means the cost of everything else is less. true, we have less money, but, if the government prints some money, while inflationary, it's only mitigating the decrease in the price of goods by the increased product. (if not too much is printed)

there is no one pie, and no gold standard, so we're all good.
danny445

Con

First of all I would like to start by stating that I am absolutely against outsourcing. The primary reason to outsource is, as you said, for more investment power. But it is not investment power for the many, or the country, it is for the FEW,who own the businesses. So there are primarily 3 reasons why outsourcing is not a good idea: 1) quality of products that we consume could potentially get low, even low enough to become harmful. 2) Americans lose jobs just so businesses can make more money 3) Outsourcing markets to nations that we aren't naturally allied with, or with countries that aren't in free markets poses viable threats to our nation, and could potentially leave us stranded in certain industries if they were to cut us off.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

First of all I would like to start by stating that I am absolutely against outsourcing. The primary reason to outsource is, as you said, for more investment power. But it is not investment power for the many, or the country, it is for the FEW,who own the businesses. So there are primarily 3 reasons why outsourcing is not a good idea: 1) quality of products that we consume could potentially get low, even low enough to become harmful. 2) Americans lose jobs just so businesses can make more money 3) Outsourcing markets to nations that we aren't naturally allied with, or with countries that aren't in free markets poses viable threats to our nation, and could potentially leave us stranded in certain industries if they were to cut us off.
so you're just arging points for why you are against it, and not responding to my points specifically?

we can regulate products if we thyink they'd be harmful. we've always did the equvalent of outscouring,,,, "made in china" has always been around, and we've never had many problems. (the only reason it's more of an issue now is bc of internet and increasing use of it)

americans lose jobs, but, if my arguments are true, they'll get more and different jobs elsewhere. there's more products, so there's need for the jobs. there's the same amount of wealth, so they're as likely to get paid just the same.

as for the free markets argument... we don't have to allow outsource freely to all... plus you're just speculating doomsday scenarios that are not likely. and as long as we can feed fuel ourselves, the benefits of outscouring would outweight the remote harms even if they occured.
danny445

Con

Sure, I can try to respond to your poorly organized points of the first argument, but I felt like I was supposed to argue against the title "Outsourcing is good". To respond to your first post, I think that you covered my points for me, we give wealth to foreign nations,and the fact that you think we should use inflationary measures to make up for it is not a very good fiscal move at all, especially considering our current economic situation. We would lose wealth, print more money to make up for it, and in turn push prices of everything else up, just for certain companies to outsource and make a profit? Not logical whatsoever. In regard to your second posting, I don't think that anything you say has much substance. The same amount of wealth? not true, there will be more wealth, but as more outsourcing occurs it gets more and more concentrated to the top, instead of spread throughout to the workers (they lose their jobs). The wealth of the workers that benefit from the production, as you said, gets lost to foreign nations. As far "made in China" products, absolutely we import a lot of products, that isn't the equivalent of outsourcing. The toy companies that we outsourced lowered the regulations for production and we imported unsafe products just for a profit. Is that good for America? I think not. I agree with you that I was using a slippery slope argument with the horrors of outsourcing, but the possibility is definitely there. I personally don't think it is wise for a free market democracy to outsource our companies to non-free market communist nations that we are potential enemies with. So overall, I don't see how the benefits outweigh the downfalls. Since it is overseas business, it must be better for America as a whole, and how can it be better for us when Americans are losing jobs, getting low quality products in return (that are harmful for our health), and tie ourselves into agreements with our polar opposites?
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

your response goes to show me you're one who thinks calling the other persons post disorganized and illogical actually passes for an argument, when the actual arguments were not addressed.

yes... we lose wealth by outsourcing and inflation pushes the prices up. but, we only print money and cause inflation if it's needed. the only reason it'd be needed is because innovation is causing the price of goods to go down. the innovation, again staying have i've already said, would push prices down becaus there's more products out there in terms of quantity and so prices would go down. (i wasn't arguing what's out there before the innovation would simply be improved by innovation... but this is also an argument in my favor)

your assertions of the money simply going to the top is just rhetoric and not substanted given that you haven't responde to my last paragraph which was essentailly posted above also.

the made in china stuff is not outsourcing techincally i aree. but, you have not repsonded to how they're effectively the same. if we import goods here, that is preventing or at least strongly causing us to compelte or not be able to produce the stuff here. it's the same result. eg we could have a tire factory here and then outsource it... or we could have been the whole time or start anew importing tires.
the uestion is if we should be doing any of that at all as it's all the same. if you're not against made in china stuff then how are you against outsourcing if they're the same deal? do you have a bias for things that have started out here, and simply disregard things we import only because that's always how we've done it?

the best argument you could have is that the outsourcing is occuring much faster than innovation. but that's not your argument, and that argument would depend on facts anyway, not the stuff you've been spouting.

you again bring up stuff about our polar opposites... but did not respond to the fact that i acnowledged we don't have to trade with all countries, and if they have really poor standards then we don't trade with them.
danny445

Con

1)"innovation is causing the price of goods to go down."

2) "your assertions of the money simply going to the top is just rhetoric and not substanted"

3) "if you're not against made in china stuff then how are you against outsourcing if they're the same deal?"

4) "but did not respond to the fact that i acnowledged we don't have to trade with all countries, and if they have really poor standards then we don't trade with them."

Essentially out of everything you typed the quotes above that I have included are the only new things that you said. As far as me not responding to your arguments I have no clue what you are talking about, I have responded to each point. I can't say the same for you, looking at the 4 sentences above, that didn't counter anything that I said in the last round, thus your argument is not even structured how a debate should go, however, to the 4 new things you said, I will have 4 responses for you, and I'm going to make it very clear so you don't feel as though I didn't respond to you.

1) What innovation are you talking about? How does outsourcing a toy company to China make us innovative? I would really like an answer to this. Or how does outsourcing a Human Resources department make us more innovative? (for example, the 24 hour numbers for businesses that are stationed outside of the country). I don't see how it does, so my response to point number 1 is very simply that it isn't true, and you don't have any facts for it.

2) Just rhetoric? that really isn't the proper use of that word, but I will edit the last word and respond to that. Substanted …. Translated to substantiated: Where else is the money going? If owners outsource American jobs to a foreign country, Americans lose that money, the foreign workers receive it. The profits raised off of low regulation standards and cheaper labor costs comes back to the owners, AKA the TOP.

3) Importing and outsourcing are absolutely two different topics and debates, you posing that question is irrelevant to this debate.

4) Once again instead of making a point about outsourcing you talk about trading. You say we don't have to trade with all countries, that's fine and dandy. But we outsource to China, a communist nation lacking an entirely free market, while we are a free market democracy. That is not a good precedent to set at all, and could have some issues. Plus where are our standards? We are giving wealth to a nation that oppresses its people, and none of it is going to the workers. It is essentially sweatshop work, including disgustingly low wages, and child labor with long working hours and bad conditions. All so Walmart can have the lowest prices guaranteed! Its disgusting.

As my last point, speaking of no responses to points made, I said a lot that you did not respond to, the lack of response will just be taken as you agreeing with those points.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Aewl1963 9 years ago
Aewl1963
Not sure who is right, but I'm voting for Danny rather than Dairygirl based on grammar and the sheer lack of any coherent style by Dairygirl.
Posted by C-Mach 9 years ago
C-Mach
It is a huge problem. But do you know who is causing it? The Federal Government has made it impossible to run a manufacturing business. Very high taxation is one cause. Also, manufacturers have been labeled villainous for over 100 years in the United States. Also, all that some American workers (Unfortunately) do is try to frivolously sue the manufacturing company for a profit. No wonder they're leaving.
Posted by Danielle 9 years ago
Danielle
there are some benefits to outsourcing, but ultimately it's a huge problem for our country. i'd take on this debate but i'm a little busy right now! maybe if it's still here later on...

good luck!
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