The Instigator
America1984
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
dlee878
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

people are born gay

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
dlee878
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 853 times Debate No: 39639
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

America1984

Pro

Con
In recent years we have witnessed a lot of arguments over the issue of gay marriage and homosexuality in general. However I feel like people are not paying enough attention to the real debate at hand are people born gay?

main debate points to discuss
A)Society dictates how the majority of people interact with one another sexually and non sexually.
B)at birth a child does not understand the difference between male and female nor the complexity of a modern day relationship.
C)before a children reaches puberty there are no distinctive exterior differences between males and females, except the way they dress and the image they portray. the "image" is also dictated by society for example if a group of 6 year olds all cut there hair short and dressed in the same clothes could you tell the difference.
D)the world would be a better place if we accepted the fact that being gay is a choice
E)homosexuality is a freak idea created by society because the whole basis of it is on the principles of gender stereotypes if a boy likes the color pink for example it does not mean that he is gay.
Note
I am not anti-gay in my opinion it is your choice however, I am against the way our society currently views homosexuals, they are not accepting them but they are making an excuse for there homosexuality by saying that people are born gay. This is a bad thing for are society because it makes being gay seem like an abnormal condition that mutates a gene. In my opinion I think it would be better if we just agree that it is an individuals choice to be gay. This would be better for society because people would over time become more accepting of homosexuals, just as people have become more tolerant for the most part of other religious groups. Forcing people to accept homosexuals by using the excuse that they are born that way and that you must accept them is not a solution.
dlee878

Con

First debate, I'm not sure how this works. Anyway, I accept your debate topic but not from the perspective that you think. I may be one of the only Bible believing Christians against legalizing gay marriage that thinks that people are born with the tendency to be gay. I used to believe it was a choice until I got married and got to know my two step-sons. They are one year apart with different Fathers, grew up without any association with their Fathers, but each one took on distinct personality traits of their Dad's which shattered my view of Nurture over Nature. I believe there is "some" choice involved, but there is a large tendency there that seems to be genetic. A lot (not all) male homosexuals have feministic mannerisms even at an early age the pre-dates their interest in sexual relationships.
Debate Round No. 1
America1984

Pro

First thank you for accepting my debate, like you I am fairly new to this as well.
It is true that often times traits can be passed over from generation to generation, which would explain why they have similar mannerisms. However this does not provide an argument for homosexuality being a choice because society dictates are idea of the difference between feminine traits and masculine traits; society also dictates the idea of the roles men and woman play in society. For example what are you taught at young age? that pink, purple, light green etc. are feminine colors and blue, red, green are masculine colors. In other words society and the world around you dictates your traits and what you consider masculine and feminine.
dlee878

Con

I think there's some confusion here. I believe we are arguing the same side of the argument from different angles. I'm trying to say that people 'are' born with a genetic disposition toward being gay. Are you arguing the same thing? If so I apologize and the error is on me for being new at this. If you are truly saying that it is a choice and not genetic then I will continue the debate. If it was truly a choice, who would choose it and why? Rebellion? It is beginning to be more accepted in our society but 20 years ago why would anyone choose it? It's a hard life to choose. My younger step-son would lie about any little thing, big or small it didn't matter as long as it got him attention. His Mother has always hated lying and comes down hard on it. Yet he would lie about the silliest little thing that didn't matter. This behavior didn't make sense to me at all. The interesting thing was his Father was the exact same way, lying about anything that would give him attention. His brother didn't have this problem. His brothers tendency was to be the hardest headed kid I know. He was going to do his own thing no matter what the consequences. He didn't care what you cared or what you thought. His Father was the same way. Two kids raised in the same environment. They were nothing like each other but very much like their Fathers. I'm not saying that everyone that is gay has a gay parent, but that more things are coded into our DNA then we think. Lying, pretentiousness, needing to be the center of attention, violence, etc. I don't think our genes "dictate" what we choose, they just put us on the path to favor one choice over another. For instance, murder is a choice, but the tendency twords violence can be traced to the monoamine oxidase A (MAOA) gene.
Debate Round No. 2
America1984

Pro

the confusing is understandable to clear things up I think that people are not born gay and it is completely there decision while you believe genetics do play a partial role.
you bring up a good point about how 20 years ago people would not want to choose to be gay this is true because at that time people where less accepting of gays so people who did choose to be gay would have been less open about there decision than they are now, they would choose it simply because they would rather spend there lives with other men and have relationships with other men rather then be with woman. They may do this because possibly they have had bad experience with woman or among other reasons because they feel they have more in common with what society views as feminine traits and this makes them more inclined to seek masculine traits. I see want you are saying about traits but no links have been made between sexuality and genetics in fact many gay people have no gay family members or at least none that are open about it. People choose to be gay because they believe they are more attracted to masculine traits because they possess more feminine traits. They might also do it because of rebellion as you say against there society.
dlee878

Con

If it's truly a choice then why would some people not have a desire for men at all and some do? Yes, I can choose to eat green beans over spinach. It is a choice in that sense. But the choice comes from deeper than just choosing one thing over another. I choose green beans because I like the taste of them and spinach makes me gag! Why do my taste buds prefer one over the other? It's more than just a preference or a choice. There's either something in my taste buds that are different from those who like spinach or something in my brain chemistry. It's not just that I choose one over the other. When someone chooses a man over a woman, yes they do choose, but it's comes from a preference that is deeper than just a choice. Some people that are gay are not rebellious at all. They have tried their whole life to be 'normal' and just can't do it anymore. I still believe it to be sin, and there is a choice to act on the feelings they have, but it's not simply a choice. We have all inherited sin and it is in our nature. For some it is homosexuality, for some it is a lying tong, for some it is gossip and backbiting. But each of us are uniquely made and have inherited our human nature in different ways.
Debate Round No. 3
America1984

Pro

First I would like to begin my final statement by saying I have enjoyed this debate and think that you put up a good counter argument, and ultimately I think it is up to the voter to decide who had a better argument. I would like to make it clear to the voters to leave any bias or personal opinions out of there decision and to read both arguments and make a decision on who had a better argument.
In conclusion, I think people are gay by choice to an extent, that being I believe that the environment you are raised in and what you are taught to believe from a young age will play a role in which sexual orientation you choose. However no person is forced to be gay, there are many cases in which people who have said they are gay later say they are straight also if you say people are born with sexual preference you would also be saying that people are born interested in certain fetishes or kinks which is impossible because these are things created by society. Similar to how you could say people are not born Catholic or Jewish they are raised in families and in an environment which makes them that way. By being raised to believe something you generally are more inclined to lean in that direction when choosing between other religions. Think about how difficult it is for someone immigrating to another country to accept that countries customs, when people are brought up to believe something it is difficult to embrace change. However it is never impossible to choose to be part of a different culture or group of people it is always an individuals choice. When a baby is born do you think at birth a girl is going to be interested in purses, clothes, dolls etc. and all the other things that are society has come to associate with a female. People are born with a blank slate, they are not born evil or good nor are they born gay or straight this is something society created. Society also created the institution of marriage and they defined the difference between a masculine and feminine. In Ancient Greece men had sex with each other and were taught at an early age that this was normal men had sex with other men because they viewed woman as slaves and in there society to have sex with a man was almost a holy event. When a child is born they do not understand the difference between a boy or girl all they know is what they are told and what they see, hear and smell by that I mean what they view as normal is what society teaches them to be normal. You mentioned how family members sometimes share traits, This is because they are part of the same family and the same distinct blood line. Also there is no proof to show that there traits are simply coincidently similar and therefore this is not a viable argument. "taste buds"? the food all tastes the same regardless, weather you enjoy the taste or not is something that varies from person to person. The reason it varies is because the way food tastes is all about mind set if I had not eaten for days and I was giving a food which I normally hate to me it would probably taste like the greatest thing ever. From a young age we are taught that candy taste good and vegetables and fruit are terrible the reason for this is mind set. When you are very young every cartoon depicts vegetables as being a terrible tasting menace that is truly vomit worthy, for example I hardly ever ate vegetables at a young age simply because I assumed it tasted terrible. Also the reason people are so unique is because all people are raised in very different environments and have different experiences which make them unique. Imaging a white board which represents to newborns minds now 2 lines are being drawn in the same direction one green one red for everything that they do differently the line bends and swerves now imaging how distant those lines would be by the age of 1 think of how different there lives may have been up to that point. People are not born unique it is there life experiences that make them that way all people are born with a blank slate. For this reason I think it is truly a matter of coincidence in which someone ends up choosing to be homosexual or whatever sexual orientation they choose. If when we where born we where immersed in a world where being bisexual was normal don't you think must people would be bi and see nothing odd about that?

I thank you on being a good competitor and wish you good luck!
dlee878

Con

I will close with an example. I've said I am an evangelical Christian. To be more specific, I am Southern Baptist. There was a young man in my church, we'll call him Ryan. He is a wonderful young man, raised in the church all his life. His family is deep rooted in the church. He was very active in church and never showed any rebellion or reason to go against his parents on anything. He has listened to truths from God's word like the following all his life:

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality."

When Ryan turned 18 he came out that he was gay and had a boyfriend. As far as I know, Ryan and his parents still have a wonderful relationship. But why would he choose to be gay? Think of how scared he must have been. Think of how he cried every night and how he is still probably wondering if God is still going to accept him. Why would he choose that? I agree, the choice to act on his desires is his, but the desires are not a choice. There was something in him that made him desire men. Is it morally right? No. But separate the desire from the action. The action of following through with your homosexual desires is a choice, but I do not see how the desire can be. When a man gets married does his desire for other women go away or does he just at that point choose to not follow through with his desire? Choosing to be faithful to his wife is a choice. Choosing not to act on his desires and protecting his marriage from those desires is a choice. But the desire itself is not.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by xatoo 3 years ago
xatoo
In truth it's probably a combination of environmental and genetic factors, we even see examples of homosexual animals too so it's unlikely we can blame it on a lack of NASCAR alone.

It also means there are more women for me!

...wait, forgot about the Lesbians :(

Damnit!
Posted by dlee878 3 years ago
dlee878
"I don't know if you picked Ryan as a coincidence"
It was a total coincidence. Not sure why I chose that name.

I do want to clarify, that although I do believe that the desire is not a choice, I do agree that the act is. I'm not sure why so many of my brothers in Christ feel like this position undermines their position on homosexuality being a sin. I know many non-bible believing people use the argument that "if God made me this way how can it be a sin?" But that still falls right in line with the Bible which says we are born sinful. Our nature is sinful. We inherit sin. I feel like homosexuality being genetic actually reinforces Biblical views and doesn't contradict them. Us being sinful leads right into the New Testamant which states that because we are so sinful Jesus came to free us from the penalty of our sin. He didn't come here to condemn us but he came to a world already condemned.
Posted by America1984 3 years ago
America1984
I don't know if you picked Ryan as a coincidence but remarkably that is also my name, because of this I was able to better see your perspective, since you used my name I thought what if I where gay and I had been that kid. Which made me realize how horrible it would feel to be alone and separate from your community and who would ever want to do that? because of this I am revising my view, I don't think that people have total freedom in the decision to be gay however I do believe that there desire to be gay is not genetic but it is the result of how they are raised and the environment in which they are raised in. Regardless of the outcome because you used my name it has made me more accepting and understanding of the gay community, which I thank you for.
Posted by MattsDebate 3 years ago
MattsDebate
Well they say that primary resources are the most reliable resource and since the majority of the gay population would say that they were made that way, I guess they would know better than anybody else that it is true.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ameliamk1 3 years ago
Ameliamk1
America1984dlee878Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: While the debate was quite mundane and not particularly well-argued, conduct goes to Con for not copying and pasting any of his arguments.