The Instigator
Pro (for)
1 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
5 Points

people feel they've met Jesus in NDEs, but do not experience figures from other religion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/28/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,551 times Debate No: 78202
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (1)




NDE near death experience. i know of no examples to say otherwise. just speculation by people that they do in fact experience an array of figures from an array of religions. no concrete examples. i'm asking for at least two or three examples.

looking at it from the islamic faith, apparently there may be something to this
"The Search for Muslim Near-Death Experiences";


Thank you, Pro. I look forward to exploring this subject with you!

Jesus and NDEs

Pro has asserted that Near Death Experiences (NDEs) generally involve an individual experiencing Jesus. I assume Pro does not mean NDEs always involve god, but when they do, Jesus is the go-to god, and other gods are uncommon anamolies.

It is important to note that the perceptions of NDEs are dependent on the individual. This has been shown by Sam Parnia and other researchers in a study over 4 years and more than 100 different NDEs

While it is “definitely clear that people do have experience at the time that they’re dead”, Parnia says, how individuals actually choose to interpret those experiences depends entirely on their background and pre-existing beliefs.[1]

Here in America, NDEs commonly involves Jesus due to the popularity of this diety in American culture, but in other cultures, where Jesus is not as well known, NDEs are typically absent of him.

Pro has asked for 2 or 3 NDE's where religious figures of other religions are experienced. I am happy to comply:

Example #1

"E.L. then described that she felt the Angel of Death drag her soul out of her and that she was surrounded by black tormenting angels who began to beat her mercilessly. She was brought to a point where she was greeted by her grandmother and other many righteous people who were associated with her while they were alive. She said that she was aware of the Divine Presence crying over her because she was being beaten so badly. She heard unbearable screams of another soul who had been sentenced to Gehinom (hell) for a breach in modesty.

E.L. begged that she should be allowed to return to this world as she had small children to raise for the service of God. She said that the merit of all the righteous people who were standing there should be enough to allow her to return. She was told it was good that she had all of these righteous people on her side, but it wasn't enough and only if she had a righteous person in this world who would beseech on her behalf would she be given merit. She mentioned the name of a righteous Hassidic Rebbe with whom she was associated.

The Rebbe at that moment was surrounded by his followers as is usual on Friday nights. His soul, however, made an appearance in the spiritual world in order to benefit E.L. She was told that there were 3 conditions for her to return. One was to continue in the repentance process she had begun. Two, she was to write a letter of thanks to the Rebbe telling him that his merit is what saved her. The third one, she wouldn't tell us about.

She then returned to her body and woke up covered with black wounds and pain from which she suffered two months and she says she is weak to this day." [2]

She felt the "Divine Prescence". Pro might like to claim that this was Yahweh/Jesus, but it should be noted that Jews worship a different god than the Christian triune god. In her interaction with this perceived prescence she is concerned about maintaining Jewish laws, and is saved by the spirit of a living Rabbi. She did not experience Jesus.

Example #2

Provided by Dhebhanom Muangman

35 yrs. old farmer from Korat province

"Patient collapsed while working in rice fields. Cause of collapse unknown. He experienced himself as being taken by a Yamatoot who was three times life size. Yamatoot told him that he had to be judged. He then found himself in front of Yama, the lord of the underworld.

Yama looked into a book in which the patients actions were written. Before the judgment could begin, Yama said that he was the wrong person and had to be taken back. The patient "sneaked" a look into the book, and saw that it was written in Thai. Surprised, (possibly because he expected it to be written in Pali, the sacred language of Thai Buddhism), he took a closer look, and read the name of a person he knew from the same village, with the date of his death written as three days after his own NDE. He revived, and the man named in Yama's book did, in fact, die on the date named." [3]

This individual perceived "Yama" prepared to judge him (as one of the dead). This NDE is consistent with the views of Yama within Chinese Buddhism - Yama is held to be the judge of the dead. [4] This god is distinct from Jesus.

Example #3

Go Taeng Saeyep

46 yrs. old. Chinese-Thai

"I was hungry, I asked the Yamatoot for food and water. He said that it was no problem, and took me to a pavilion. He ordered someone to bring me food. When it arrived, I tried to eat it, but it disappeared in my hand. I said "Don't kid me. I'm really hungry", and I tried to eat some more. The same thing happened again. I gave up, and tried to drink some water. The water disappeared as well. The Yamatoot laughed, and said that there was no food for you. It's not yours. If you never create merit by donating food to the monks, you will have no food in hell. When you revive, you absolutely must create merit for yourself in this way. The Yamatoot then took me to heaven. I was afraid in hell because I had never created merit. Now, it was time to see heaven. "Is it possible", I asked. The Yamatoot asked me if I really wanted to see heaven. "If so, then you must contemplate the three treasures of The Lord Buddha, His Teachings, and the community of monks who follow his teachings. Concentrate your mind, pray, and you will go to heaven. After I closed my eyes and put my hands in the prayerful gesture, the Yamatoot disappeared and I was no longer in hell. I found myself in another place which was very pleasant. The weather was nice, I was no longer hungry. I saw a garden with trees all in rows. It was very beautiful, like the garden of a king or a millionaire. As I walked into the garden, I smelled some flowers. They were so very fragrant, with a scent I had never known before. Next, I saw some angels, both male and female. They glided through the air. They were dressed beautifully, and wore exquisite jewelry. Some had flowers in their hair. I kept walking, and saw a pavilion with a roof like that of a palace. There was an angelic man sitting inside. His body was surrounded by a green halo. I approached the angel, sat down and made obeisances. I asked "who are you? Where am I?" He answered "I am the lord of the angels, and this is the angelic world. I then recognized that this was none other than Indra, the King of Heaven. He said to me "When you go back to your world, you should teach your fellow men not to commit sins, as it causes them to go to hell. If they do good, and behave in a moral manner, they will be reborn in my heaven. I will show you the mercy of teaching you the Dharma; The sacred law." He imparted this knowledge by opening my wisdom eye. I then saw all the truths of the universe. The future, the past, and the present. After six earthly days, Indra told me that he would take me to another level of heaven, The World of Brahma. I saw Brahma, the creator of the universe. His face was similar to Indra's with a fresh, clean look about it that indicated mercy, compassion, lovingkindness, and equanimity. He had a golden halo. Brahma explained that the angels in his level of heaven were all on their way to take new births in the ordinary world. Therefore, there were many houses that were empty. He was waiting for those who had created much merit during their lives to take rebirth there, but they were very few. Those who were there had mostly been monks who had been strict in their observance of the monastic rule. [3]"

Mr. Saeyep refers to Yamatoot (Messenger of Yama), Indra, and Brahma. These religious figures are apart from Jesus and the Christian religion.

Back to you, Pro.





Debate Round No. 1


i dunno about the jewish one given judiaism's relationship to christianity. but sure fine you got it


Thank you, Pro.
Debate Round No. 2


I have established NDEs can and do involve religious figures other than Jesus. Pro has conceded as much. Thank you for the debate, Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Skepticalone 3 years ago
Will do, John. Out of curiosity, what is the NDE website you frequent?
Posted by johnlubba 3 years ago
I'd like to vote on this please send me a reminder when it's in the voting period, I have somehow stumbled onto a NDE website and frequent their forums so this is of interest to me.

Posted by Skepticalone 3 years ago
As you wish.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
if u can find some examples, by all means take it and win it.
Posted by Skepticalone 3 years ago
I'll be happy to do some research for you and take the win. Let me know if this is your desire, and I will accept immediately.
Posted by Sulfur 3 years ago
There are a lot of religions that don't believe in a physical religious figures. A lot of them have to do with inner peace and tranquility. Not all religions are full of hypocrites and are terrified of Hell.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
well i guess you provided one example.
Posted by SNP1 3 years ago
So, you never really looked that hard, did you?

"I asked the clerks to give me some work to do, but not to send me back. Yamraj (Hindi god of death) was there sitting on a high chair with a white beard and wearing yellow clothes. He asked me, "What do you want?"

"Vasudev said that the "black man" had a club and used foul language. Vasudev identified him as Yamraj, the Hindu god of the dead."

Why have some Hindus said they have seen Yamraj?
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
i dont claim non christians don't have NDEs. i claim they dont experience religious figures from other religions.
Posted by SNP1 3 years ago
Well, looks like you ARE smart enough to google things. Because of this, I can only assume that when you have googled non-christian NDEs that any NDEs not of Jesus you have dismissed (as there are a lot on non-satirical websites).
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Gracefully conceded by Pro and well debated by Con