The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Kaynex
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

plus is cause and minus is effect

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Kaynex
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,076 times Debate No: 66189
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (31)
Votes (2)

 

vi_spex

Pro

you can not give an apple, without having an apple less

minus is the effect of a cause

plus can not exist without minus, therefore god is impossible

the balancing point between plus and minus equals, so equal is logic
Kaynex

Con

I took this debate because I consider it a free win, and everybody needs a self-esteem boost every once in a little while, you know?

Cause and effect is a very abstract principal. It is taken on axiom that doing something must equate to something else happening. Cause and effect is almost always predictable and is almost always true except when considering high energy applications and quantum physics. Therefore, it's the basis of all experimental science.

You are considering letting the cause be denoted by a positive quantity, and letting the effect be a negative quantity. This only makes sense if the effect is equal and opposite the cause, which in many cases, it is not.

For example, this system makes sense with forces, but it does NOT make sense with momentums.

As for the rest, I will leave it up to you to prove it in more detail.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

lies are complicated by separation and true is simple now as one

any cause and effect relation will suffice, therefore complicating to define is a bad method

cause and effect is not abstract, you see these words because your eyes are open, try close em

you can also minus, but it will only be minus if it has the effect of adding, take the apple example to simplify
Kaynex

Con

You're right, giving and receiving an apple is a cause and effect that is equal and opposite.

Let's say you flipped a cooking pancake. What is the cause and effect there?
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

well that is a complication if we cant to find just plus and minus, because I have to break that pancake example into many parts

for every movement you make, there is a plus and minus going on is what this means, so holding your arm out in front of you, and now moving to the left and stopping it, minus happen with the plus, one could say minus becomes what I have to remember and plus is where my arm is, that's where I added it to and also im holding it there so basicly

so one could say, I move my arm and the pancake turns in the air, i add a motion that flips it into the air, and it comes back down again because of gravity, 2 plusses and minus happened, but the thing about it is if you go down on cellular level, MANY causes and effects happen, so i determine where the example begins and ends, but not the cause and effect relation

a cause is either random or intended, and I determine where cause and effect begins and ends as there is no beginning and end, so where ever I say is the beginning is the beginning

so the pancake falling and hitting the pan is the cause that the oil sounds began again

plus and minus is equal, true equals now
Kaynex

Con

Ok. I have to hand it to you Vi_spex, you've made a good point here. If you break the system into microstates then you'll see a lot of equal and opposite cause and effects.
However, the system as a whole isn't so easy to observe this way. You can't assign a plus to flipping the pancake, and a minus to the pancake being flipped.

So yes, within the realm of strict physics and forces and work, broken down into microsystems, this system is sensical. However, for different concepts, like macrostates, daily routine, or philosophy, cause and effect can't really be qualitative.

The big claim you make is that plus can't exist without minus. I'm interested in hearing about how you quantify that, and a real world example. Even in a microstate system, the second law of thermodynamics says that energy is lost between processes, and so cause is always stronger than effect.

And then you go on to say that equal is logic. EhH?
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

i intended the pancake to flip, i added the flip, and intent is cause

if you are lost in the forest and hungry, and you pick up a mushroom and eat it, does it matter what you think is going to happen if the mushroom is poisonous? how could you eat the mushroom without adding, and how could you pick it up without minusing, ai? and this equals, if you didn't pick it up and eat it there is no equal of you getting poisoned and a missing mushroom on the forest floor somewhere

it works on all levels, because i determine the beginning and end

cause+(and)effect=(equal, is)logic
plus+minus=equal
Kaynex

Con

Ok, so the effect cannot exist without the cause. However, this isn't within the plus and minus system. For example, if I get poisoned, I don't have to lose poison, or anything else really. The plus exists without the minus.

"cause+(and)effect=(equal, is)logic
plus+minus=equal"
According to wikipedia, Logic is the use and study of valid reasoning. I'm not sure that cause + effect = the use of valid reasoning.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

the minus is your health, that's why you don't want to add poison, which makes it reasonable not to do so

maybe its true to say reason is logic of the mind, reason is false and logic is true

logic+experience=reason(concept of logic)
cause+effect=logic
reason+intent=morality
Kaynex

Con

Maybe it's just that you are far beyond my comprehension and I just don't understand.
Debate Round No. 5
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
advanced arguments, I do not expect anyone to understand
Posted by Commondebator 1 year ago
Commondebator
vi_spex always makes interesting debates, but does not make any sense. . .
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
it means there can not be a first cause

I just made it open for counters
Posted by Maat 2 years ago
Maat
What are you saying?

"plus can not exist without minus, therefore god is impossible"

You go from the topic of the debate, addition is the cause and minus is the effect, to another, the existence of god. Why are you making a point about god? That is not the topic, so don't get it involved.

Also:

"the balancing point between plus and minus equals, so equal is logic"

???
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
why don't you want to add poison kaynex
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
keep it coming
Posted by chewster911 2 years ago
chewster911
Yeah and it is hilarious watching you fail in logic. Keep it up.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
it sure was fun seeing you try
Posted by chewster911 2 years ago
chewster911
Lol why do i even bother...
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
facts are in the past, past doesn't matter, now is matter

facts dosnt exist beyond my own memory
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Tweka 1 year ago
Tweka
vi_spexKaynexTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Better arguments by Con
Vote Placed by chewster911 2 years ago
chewster911
vi_spexKaynexTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro makes no sense, as always...