The Instigator
1Devilsadvocate
Con (against)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
timou
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

quran is from God

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
1Devilsadvocate
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,421 times Debate No: 29428
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (28)
Votes (6)

 

1Devilsadvocate

Con

timou has stated:
"there is scientific proofs in Quran that descovered today , so quran is from God ."

I will be challenging this idea.
timou

Pro

http://www.sciencedaily.com...
iron came from stars
God said in Quran:"we sent it down"
http://quran.com...
---------------------------
http://quran.com... quran said that montains move .when this discovred?
---------------------------
bible found in turkey and video
http://english.alarabiya.net...
video of that bible

---------------------------
quran wasn't written on paper,it was memorized
i have article about words repition in quran
http://anti-brainwash.overblog.com...
---------------------------
The lowest point on dry land on earth
i will show you from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...
=========>
quran said ;"romain lose against persiens in the lowest land, then after years they will win"
if we see history,we will find that romains lose in the same place that it is the lowest pont in land on earth
http://quran.com...
+
"they will win": it is prediction
http://en.wikipedia.org...
it happen !

----------------------------
http://quran.com...
Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips.
----------------------------------
miracle with russian muslim kid hidden by our media:
http://anti-brainwash.overblog.com...
-------------------------------------
frensh searcher become muslim after his descover.quran said smthg that bible didn't said:
http://anti-brainwash.overblog.com...
-----------------------------
http://quran.com...

quran gave secret of 2 seas not mixed . quran is from 1400 years ago

http://quran.com...

explication under photo
http://www.facebook.com...
------------------------------
other miracles
http://www.facebook.com...
------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com...
---------------------------------

at year 600,if someone is in coma , will he survive? no, because he can't eat.(there is no way to keep him alive).

in quran ,Allah talk about some people that he made them sleeping many years then he wake them up. what is interesting ? this, when they are slept, angels move their bodies to the left and to the right.
http://quran.com...
"we turn them to left and to right"
for complete http://quran.com...

at present day:
when someone is in coma,what nurse do to him ? read
<< The nursing staff will move the patient every 2"3 hours from side to side and depending on the state of consciousness sometimes to a chair.>>

search word "nursing" in this site http://en.wikipedia.org... and you will find it.

how quran knew smthg that it is impossible to know it at year 600 ? quran is from Allah .
---------------------------------------
i can't hep you if you ignore my proofs.
last thing,i made this challenge,can take it ? read my artcile

Smile after death !!
http://anti-brainwash.overblog.com...
I made challenge that no one won . are able to find photo of any human that have smile after death? after life, there is 1 true way . my point is clear , happiness after death came only with islam . islam is the true religion.
Debate Round No. 1
1Devilsadvocate

Con



Rebuttal:

1) "iron came from stars"

Pro seems to think that this is stated in the Koran.

This is what the Koran says:
"We have already sent Our messengers ... And We sent down iron, wherein is great military might and benefits for the people"

How does that = iron came from stars?

the messenger sent was Allah, in the 7th century. & the iron is a metaphor for weapons which Mohamed used to kill & conquer.

-------

2) "Koran said that montains move .when this discovred?"

The koran say:

"And you see the mountains, thinking them rigid, while they will pass as the passing of clouds."

a) Mountains don't exactly move, & they certainly don't "pass as the passing of clouds". They get taller due to tectonic plates pushing toward one another, which causes it to get taller at an extremely slow & unperseptable rate.
Mount Everest "grows" at a rate of .25 feet per year, that clearly not what the Koran is talking about.

b) if you look at the context, & even the grammatical format of this very verse, you will see that it is not intended as scientific facts, but rather predictions/prophesies, of some future event. The verse says "they will pass". & all the verses in that passage are in the future tense. So the verses are predictions of some future event, not scientific facts.
--------------------
3) "bible found in turkey and video"

a) There is no independent evidence, that this book is really that old.

"some believe it is a fake and only dates back to the 16th century.

The oldest copies of the book date back to that time, and are written in Spanish and Italian.

Protestant pastor İhsan Özbek said it was unlikely to be authentic.

This is because St Barnabas lived in the first century and was one of the Apostles of Jesus, in contrast to this version which is said to come from the fifth or sixth century.

He told the Today Zaman newspaper: 'The copy in Ankara might have been written by one of the followers of St Barnabas.

'Since there is around 500 years in between St Barnabas and the writing of the Bible copy, Muslims may be disappointed to see that this copy does not include things they would like to see.

'It might have no relation with the content of the Gospel of Barnabas.'

Theology professor Ömer Faruk Harman said a scientific scan of the bible may be the only way to reveal how old it really is."(1)


b) Even if the book is that old, what evidence is there that it actually says what they claim it says.
The Vatican asked to see it, but they haven't yet. No one has seen it except some unknown Muslims, so how do we know what it really says.

c) Even if this whole thing is legit, it proves nothing because Mohamed could have changed his name latter in life, (i.e. when he decided that he was a prophet), to fit this story/prophesy.

-----------------------------------------

4) "Koran wasn't written on paper,it was memorized"

a) & therefore???

b) says who?

-----------------------------------

5) "The lowest point on dry land on earth"

LOL.
If you look at the translation provided by pro in his link, it doesn't even say anything about "lowest point".
"In the nearest land. But they, after their defeat, will overcome." http://quran.com...

So basically pro just lied about what the "holy" Koran says.
http://www.freerepublic.com...
http://www.stratfor.com...

--------------------------------------------

"they will win": it is prediction"

a) The Koran wasn't even written until after 640, which is after all these "predictions" took place.

b) It's not from the Koran, it's from hadith, which is the oral tradition and developed much latter.

c) From the very wikipedia article that pro sourced:
"Present Scholar Karl Gottlieb Pfander writes:
"But Al-Baizawi shatters the whole argument of the Muslims by informing us of certain varied readings in these verses of Suratu'r Rum. He tells us that some read (Arabic text appears here) instead of the usual (Arabic text appears here) and (Arabic text appears here) instead of (Arabic text appears here). The rendering will then be: 'The Byzantines have conquered in the nearest part of the land, and they shall be defeated in a small number of years'. If this be the correct reading, the whole story about Abu Bakr's bet with Ubai must be a fable, since Ubai was dead long before the Muslims began to defeat the Byzantines '[but the hadith talks about byzantines and persians confilict, and the counters between Muslims and Byzantin Empire did not took place yet, so this could be biased quote, also note that the nearest meaning of word -al adna (arabic)is- the lowest as discussed above]' , and even long before the victories which Heraclius won over the Persians. This shows how unreliable such Traditions are. The explanation which Al Baizawi gives is, that the Byzantines became conquerors of 'the well-watered land of Syria' (Arabic text appears here) and that the passage predicted that the Muslims would soon overcome them. If this is the meaning, the Tradition which records the 'descent' of the verses about six years before the Hijrah must be wrong, and the passage must belong to A.H. 6 at earliest. It is clear that, as the vowel points were not used when the Qur-an was first written down in Cufic letters, no one can be certain which of the two readings is right. We have seen that there is so much uncertainty about (1) the date at which the verses were 'sent down', (2) the correct reading [Note: it was actually the recitation that was preserved and not the text, so really this argument is applying criticism to the wrong thing and then ignoring the right thing, the recitation of the Quran, not the written record], and (3) the meaning, that it is quite impossible to show that the passage contains a prophecy which was fulfilled. Hence, it cannot be considered to be a proof of Muhammad's prophetic office.""

-----------------------------------------

6) "Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips."
Pro quotes a verse from the koran, but doesn't explain what it proves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
7) "miracle with russian muslim kid hidden by our media:"
It wasn't hidden by the media, it was ignored because it's stupid hoax. Some guy decided to write verses of the koran on his kid.
What evidence is there, that this wasn't just written by the parents.
----------------------------------
8) "frensh searcher become muslim after his descover.quran said smthg that bible didn't said:"

a) & that is???

b) So what?

c) Why only 1 "searcher"?
------------------------------------
9) "quran gave secret of 2 seas not mixed . Koran is from 1400 years ago"

a) Ships have been around for 1000's of years, http://en.wikipedia.org...

b) there isn't any barrier as the Koran says. http://www.hoaxorfact.com...
---------------------------------------------
10) "other miracles"
Not one verse was quoted that is supported by the Koran
--------------------------------------------
11) "facebook"
Forelock is hair, not brain.
----------------
12)"Allah talk about some people that he made them sleeping many years then he wake them up."
The only source for that story is the Koran.
How do we know that the Koran is true?
--------
13) "Koran knew smthg that it is impossible to know it at year 600"
Why is it impossible?
-------------------
14) "I made challenge that no one won . are able to find photo of any human that have smile after death?"

a)It's easy to make it look like he's smiling after he dies.

b) http://answers.yahoo.com...


c) prove that those people are dead, some seem to be alive.

d) I "win" your challenge :
http://1.bp.blogspot.com...


(1)http://www.dailymail.co.uk...-
timou

Pro

you said Muhammed pbuh used iron to kill ! check this :
Is Islam religion of peace?
During the 23 years of the prophet Mohammed life, Muslims killed 819 persons in 56 events. Including 400 Jewish who revoked their peace agreement during an attack on the city and betrayed the Muslims, and this punishment was in agreement with their books and by decided by an arbitrator of their choice. The number of actual war was only 19. None of these wars were to spread the religion! But to meet a threat!
On the other hand, Christians killed about 70,000 in Jerusalem in one week in the crusade!!
-----------------------
you said:
How does that = iron came from stars?
if you read it all you will understand, http://quran.com...
(and sent down with them the Scripture), quran is from Allah to messenger Muhammed pbuh, from sky to earth.
same thing for iron. it is from sky to earth .
----------------------
are you sayig moutains isn't part of earth ? if you're in bus,bus move ,so you , you're moving from place to another.
moutains move but you can't see that .
movement can move to many sides, you use word "grow" , i don't think so.
quran is for all humans, it is your problem if you want quran to say scientific words insh,metter...
-----------------------
when you say LoL ,you just laugh on yourself stupid
translation is not true ,the right word is "lower"
http://translate.google.tn...
check this http://quran.com... and the trto find the arbic word i used in google translater.
-----------------------
prediction happen
--------------------
can you explain how parents wrote on that kid? words change every 2 or 3 days and there is no scratch on skin because the words are written by veins . you will burn in hell because your madia washed your brain. rothscild family own your media.
------------------
why only one searcher ? stupid question, why he convert ? you ignore the scentific proof ,you talk like politicien.
------------------
12) there is 1 same copy of quran in all world, Allah said that he will guard it from modification because old books were modified(torah and bible)
----------------
14) you post fake photos
Debate Round No. 2
1Devilsadvocate

Con

"Is Islam a religion of peace?"
No.
"During the 23 years of the prophet Mohammad life, Muslims killed 819 persons in 56 events."
& he claims 400 of them were even legit. That does not sound peaceful.
(I'm not sure how the Jews could have broke any treaty, by the time Mohamed came the Jews had long been kicked out of Israel, they were already exiled & scattered, there was no Jewish state anymore at that time, as it had already been dissolved.

The comparison to the crusades is irrelevant (as both could be violent), & invalid. Pro compared the 1st 30 or so years of Islam which was just starting to grow. To the crusades which took place over 100's of years with a large, powerful, well established, religion, that was already many centuries old. By the time Islam was that old, large, strong, powerful etc. they had killed many more.

For more about the violence of Islam see the accompanying video debate, & the following links:

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...
http://www.debate.org...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pro writes:
"you said: How does that = iron came from stars? if you read it all you will understand, http://quran.com......
(and sent down with them the Scripture), Koran is from Allah to messenger Muhammad pbuh, from sky to earth.
same thing for iron. it is from sky to earth ."

I read it, & it says nothing about iron coming from stars, in fact, it doesn't even mention the word stars at all.
Furthermore the verse is not discussing creation. As I said before, based on the context of the verse, it is a metaphor for weapons. As the verse says, "And We sent down iron, wherein is great military might and benefits for the people, ..."

---------------------------------------------------
Mountains moving:
I really could not understand what my opponent was trying to reply.
Mountains don't really move horizontally, it's more vertical.
Picture it like this:
Put your finger tips together in almost a strait line, but curving upward slightly.
Now push your finger tips together.
You will find that the slope increases, & the finger tips get higher.
This is basically what mountains do.
Somehow I don't think that's what " they will pass as the passing of clouds" means to say.

More importantly though pro failed to address my 2nd point, which was that that verse & the verses around it are the future tense, & thus seem to be predictions of the future rather than (scientific/geologic) fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"when you say LoL ,you just laugh on yourself stupid
translation is not true ,the right word is "lower"..."
The translation I used, was a cut & past from the translation provided by the link that pro gave to the verse.
Now he claims that his own source (i.e. the source he provided), is a mistranslation.

"http://translate.google.tn......
check this http://quran.com...... and the trto find the arbic word i used in google translater."
The 2nd link here is a mistake. It links to a totally different verse that has nothing to do with wars in the lowest land.
Furthermore, in all the translation I've seen it is always translated as near, not low.
Instead of listing many links, I'll provide 2 that have multiple translations:
http://quran.com... - on the left hand side there are 6 translations to select, not one of them translates it as low.
Every single one of them translates it as some form of near, close, or "adjacent (i.e., more easy to reach...".
http://www.universalunity.net... - This has 4 classic translations (some of them are the same as those in those in the 1st link). Again, not one of them translates it as low, &Every single one of them translates it as some form of near or close.
To me that is much more significant than Google translate saying low. (It could also be that the usage has changed. (i.e. in ancient Arabic it means close, but in modern it means low.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"prediction happen"
Yes that is literally all pro wrote. No attempt was made to address my 3 rebuttals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"can you explain how parents wrote on that kid?"
Sure.
One simple way is with something called ink.
What evidence is there, that it was made by the veins, & not ink?
----------------------------------------------------------
"14) you post fake photos"
LOL.
Why are my photos fake but yours not. Talk about brainwashed.
Pro commits the logical fallacy known as special pleading.
He gives no reason to believe that the photos I presented are any more fake than his.
timou

Pro

islam is peace ? his 2 links will be enough to shut your mouth.

http://quran.com...

you think every bomb explosed is by muslims ?
do you know what is mean divide and conquer ?
CIA and mossad are involved but you can never see that because your media is owned by rothschild family watch this to undertsand the taliban . US gov and europe fight the caliphate that will be start so soon.
Debate Round No. 3
1Devilsadvocate

Con

"Islam is peace ? his 2 links will be enough to shut your mouth.

http://quran.com......"

I haven't the faintest idea what pro thinks he's saying.

Whatever it is, it seems that he is against killing kofars (non-believers), which is good.
He should spread that to all Muslims, & fight Islamic extremism.

But this really has nothing to do with the debate.

"you think every bomb explosed is by muslims ?"

Obviously not.

"do you know what is mean divide and conquer ?"
I presume pro meant "do you know what the term, "divide & conquer", means?

The answer is yes.

It is a terminology used in computer science, but I presume pro means it in the strategic sense.
The term is pretty self explanatory, divide that which you wish to conquer, then conquer.

Not sure what this has to do with the debate.

I watched the 1st 5 seconds of the video, until It said " The creators of this series do not claim this to be the truth..."

The video isn't even meant to be evidence for any claim, it just sows the seeds of conspiracy theories.

& again, this has nothing to do with the debate.

I have refuted all that pro has said.
Pro failed to prove that "quran is from God".

Vote Con.
timou

Pro

check this
http://anti-brainwash.overblog.com...

Prophet Muhammed pbuh lived in sahara , read the article and save yourself from hell . You watched just 5 seconds from video , you tought that you know the truth but you don't. your media control your brain.
Debate Round No. 4
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
Call the name of the debate Weak minded and Ugly Hairy Morons who are insecure and have No game to pick up women will control women thru indoctrination of a horse flying misogynist story :)"
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
who would dont like cleanliness.
loll
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
touching a women. i dont know how u behave. we dont touch any other women other than our wives.
and if you touch a women. the natural hormonal phenomenon happens in both man and women.
and that cause some wetting. i dont want to talk about that more.
leave it. those who are married may know what it means.
so we need to wash our selves.
cleanliness is our half faith.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
yes u said about cleanliness. yes only animals hate to take bath or ablution.
put some dog or cat into the shower. see how violent she or he become.
but human needs this every day. this is called cleanliness and personal hygiene.
see history you will find your origin. yet still you need to learn this from us.
very funny.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
i will not waste your time and you also dont mine.
so have some thing valuable.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
be like a year man.
dont be like child.
your every word should be sensible and valuable.
and speak when you think some thing is measure and calculated.
i wanted to see some thing good from you.
have debate with me.
present your idea. to what you belong. your mind set or believe.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
so what you wanted to prove devient.genie.
last time i spare you.
this time the battle with me and you.
you wanted to prove islam. is terrible or hateful.
give me a conclusive argument or opinion.
so that i can decide the name of debate.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
Women in Surah 5

When it's time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can't find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. 5:6

You guys are too stupid to make fun of, like your boy in Hangover movie. Too stupid to make fun of you piles of worthless DNA :)
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
Intolerance in Surah 5

Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10

Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13

Allah has stirred up enmity and hatred among Christians. 5:14

Christians are disbelievers for believing in the divinity of Christ. 5:17

Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45

Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51

Jews and Christians are losers. 5:53

Allah could replace nonbelievers with believers who would love him and do whatever he says. 5:54

Your only friends should be Allah, Muhammad, and those who believe correctly (Muslims). 5:55

Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 5:57

Jews and Christians are evil-livers. 5:59

Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests. 5:63

Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews. 5:64

Allah does not guide disbelievers. 5:67

The Jews rejected and killed Allah's prophets, since "they were willfully blind and deaf." 5:70-71
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
WHAT WORTHLESS PILES OF DNA THINK:

Cruelty in Surah 5

"Fear Me! 5:3

Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10

"The owners of the fire. That is the reward of evil-doers." 5:29

Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36

Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37

Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38

Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41

Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. 5:45

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72

Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73

Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80

Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86

Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94

After agreeing to send down a table of food from heaven, Jesus warns his disciples that will catch holy hell if they ever stop believing. 5:115
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Jarhyn 4 years ago
Jarhyn
1DevilsadvocatetimouTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Seriously, after the last several debates engaged by timou, his grammar hasn't improved, and he's still making the same awful arguments. Either he's a liar or a loon, and being a loon doesn't make such conduct any more acceptable. As to sources, he quotes facebook, conspiracy sites, and islamic shill sites. While I'm tempted to gig CON on sources for quoting the freepers (freerepublic), PRO's sources are still FAR worse.
Vote Placed by Magic8000 4 years ago
Magic8000
1DevilsadvocatetimouTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had bad spelling, bad grammar, bad arguments, shoddy sources, and he basically forfeits his last 2 rounds.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
1DevilsadvocatetimouTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not debate but rather pointed to lots of videos and webpages. His conclusion is enough to explain a full seven-point vote for Con: "Prophet Muhammed pbuh lived in sahara , read the article and save yourself from hell . You watched just 5 seconds from video , you tought that you know the truth but you don't. your media control your brain." We are not voting against the Quran, we are voting against you, timou.
Vote Placed by wiploc 4 years ago
wiploc
1DevilsadvocatetimouTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Secondguy didn't show up for the debate. Rather than write his thoughts here, he merely linked to other people's thoughts. That isn't debating.
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
1DevilsadvocatetimouTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Con for Pro claiming everyone who disagrees with him is controlled by the media; S&G is obvious; Arguments because Con's were never refuted adequately, whereas Pro's all were refuted and/or dropped; Sources because Pro used some highly suspect sources.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
1DevilsadvocatetimouTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro gave up.