The Instigator
islamandworld
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

quran is right in terms of science

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/3/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,841 times Debate No: 41600
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

islamandworld

Pro

Alhamdulilah...I believe in one god Allah the almighty,the merciful....He guided me to the straight path and not the path of those who went astray,alhamdulilah.Thanks is to Allah who has created the universe...

1400 years ago,Quran was revealed as divine revelation to the last messenger Muhammad [p.b.u.h].And alhamdulilah it is a book of signs NOT SCIENCE.It gives clear signs about the true religion.At that period people believed in miracles and alhamdulilah it showed many miracles and fulfilled prophecies.After that came the period of literature,and Qur'an was considered as the best books in Arabic.And then came the period of Science And Technology.
There is no doubt in this book as who would have thought 1400 ago that the world was sphere not flat,and who would have thought there is a barrier in the sea.Yet many deniers of the religion create false contradictions against the word of god.some say that mountains helps to stop earth quake.FIRST OF ALL PROVIDE A VERSE WHICH STATES IT PREVENTS EARTH QUAKE..
However, the Qur"an consistently describes mountains as stabilizers for the Earth"s surface which hold it firmly lest it should shake with us, and as pickets (or pegs) for the Earth that hold its surface (i.e. the Earth"s lithosphere) down as a means of fixation. So, the Qur"an"in very simple words"described the outward protrusion of mountains on the Earth"s surface, emphasized their great downward extensions within the Earth"s crust, and defined their exact role as pickets and means of fixation for that crust. Such knowledge was revealed more than 12 centuries before man started to wonder whether or not mountains could have roots below its outcropping parts, and before he could realize any value for the existence of mountains on the surface of our globe, a value that is only being currently conceived by a very limited number of specialists in the field of Earth Sciences.

"Have We not made the earth as a bed, And the mountains as pegs?"(Surat An-Naba' (The Great News): 6-7)

MY DEAR FRIEND WHICH WHICH FAVOURS OF YOUR LORD WILL YE DENY.

this isnt enough...to prove allah right....come to the straight path or else you may be ashamed of your selves on the day of judjement.....
WHICH WHICH FAVOURS OF YOUR LORD WILL YE DENY.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy

Con

I would like to that my opponent for accepting this challenge that was posted in the forum where he said there are no scientific inconsistincies in the Koran.http://www.debate.org...
Post # 88

The first challenge issue by my opponent which I want to address is the following "FIRST OF ALL PROVIDE A VERSE WHICH STATES IT PREVENTS EARTH QUAKE."

In the Koran it states in Surah 16: 15 "AandHe hath cast into the earth firm hills that it quake not with you, and streams and roads that ye may find a way." (1) I am not sure how my opponent interprets this, but what it seems to me in simple English is that the mountains shake not with the earth and people, or in other words Mountains stop earthquakes. But maybe I should also add that this is a view held by other Muslims as well, as can be seen in the ScienceIslam website where it states "Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth. [Geological Concept of Mountains pp. 44-45]. They hinder the shaking of the earth."(2)

So while I am sure my opponent will try deny this, the fact is that this is what the verse means. The mountains will stop earthquakes. This is unscientific for two reasons (a) mountains do not stop earthquakes and (b) there are still earthquakes in the world. If the Koran was right, there would be no earthquakes.

Then my opponent addresses the fact about Mountains as pegs in the Earth, which fix the crust. Or as my opponent puts it "So, the Qur"an"in very simple words"described the outward protrusion of mountains on the Earth"s surface, emphasized their great downward extensions within the Earth"s crust, and defined their exact role as pickets and means of fixation for that crust." By this I gather my opponent means that it is mountains that fix the crust in place, is that saying that plate tectonics are not real?(3)

Regardless, this statement about pegs is a gross misinterpretation of what is actually happening so let me elaborate. Now the concept of pegs of mountains is not wrong as this idea is put forward by some geologists to try explain the concept of mountains actually extending deep into the crust.(4) In this way these mountains would look like pegs, but this is just a descriptive way of explaining this depth that mountains extend. Also this implies that pegs are placed in the Earth (or mountains are placed in the Earth) which is not how mountains are formed. Or according to the Koran Surah 78: 6-7 "Have We not made the earth an expanse, And the high hills bulwarks?"(5)

So how are mountains made according to the Koran then? I would assume from the verses that mountains are hammered as pegs into the Earth. However, mountains are not formed that way. Most mountains are formed by plate tectonics, or the rising, falling and shifting of the continental crust (see the figure). But a bigger problem for the Koran is that some mountains/hills are formed by erosion so they never had these "pegs" to begin with.


Mountain formation source (6)

I believe this argument has shown that the Koran makes highly inaccurate scientific explanation about mountains. But the Koran also makes other false claims about different sciences like cognition, where it tells you that only the frontal lobe of the Cerebrum (forelock) is involved in lying and sin.

I hand the debate back to my opponent.


(1) http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
(2) http://www.scienceislam.com...
(3) http://science.nationalgeographic.com...
(4) http://geoscience.wisc.edu...
(5) http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
(6) http://www.rubyfalls.com...
Debate Round No. 1
islamandworld

Pro

Alhamdulilah,You cant prove.YOU ARE WRONG AS YOU PROVIDE WRONG MEANINGS OF QURAN. SURAH NAHL VERSE NO 15 STATES:
And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,

WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT MOUNTAINS PREVENT EARTH QUAKE...PLZ BE SURE BEFORE STATING WRONG ABOUT QURAN.by this the first point is cleared
I will insha Allah clear your all misunderstandings and misconceptions .
Brother said:By this I gather my opponent means that it is mountains that fix the crust in place, is that saying that plate tectonics are not real?the answer is
Literally, the word "mountain" (Latin Montanus) is described as "a landmass that projects conspicuously above its surroundings and is higher than a hill."
In "A Dictionary of the Natural Environment," Monkhouse & Small (1978) define the term "mountain" as follows: "A markedly elevated landform, bounded by steep slopes and rising to prominent ridges or individual summit-peaks. There is no specific altitude, but usually taken to be over 600 meters (2000 ft.) in Britain, except where eminences rise abruptly from surrounding lowlands, e.g. Conway M. In such a case, the term Mount is sometimes used . . .

The New Encyclopedia Britannica defines a mountain "as an area of land that is relatively much higher than the land surrounding it" and adds "thus, the so-called hills associated with great ranges such as the Himalayas would be mountains in a less formidable setting."

Similarly, the Encyclopedia Americana defines a mountain as "a portion of the Earth"s surface that rises above the surrounding region" and adds that "Generally, a mountain range decreases in height in stages, with a transition through hills to lower regions called plains. However, in some cases the transition is extremely rapid. Mountains occur worldwide, in both continental and oceanic regions."

From the above survey, it becomes obvious that all current definitions of mountains, both literal and scientific, restrict themselves to the conspicuous protrusion of such landforms above their surroundings, their high peaks and steep sides, as well as to their presence in either complex ranges, systems, chains, and cordilleras that run more or less parallel to each other or in single prominences. In other words, all current definitions of mountains are only confined to the outer morphology of such landforms, without the slightest notion to their subsurface extensions which have been lately proved to be several times their outward heights.

[All current definitions of mountains are only confined to the outer morphology of such landforms]

All current definitions of mountains are only confined to the outer morphology of such landforms

Mountains in Quran

However, the Qur"an consistently describes mountains as stabilizers for the Earth"s surface which hold it firmly lest it should shake with us, and as pickets (or pegs) for the Earth that hold its surface (i.e. the Earth"s lithosphere) down as a means of fixation. So, the Qur"an"in very simple words"described the outward protrusion of mountains on the Earth"s surface, emphasized their great downward extensions within the Earth"s crust, and defined their exact role as pickets and means of fixation for that crust. Such knowledge was revealed more than 12 centuries before man started to wonder whether or not mountains could have roots below its outcropping parts, and before he could realize any value for the existence of mountains on the surface of our globe, a value that is only being currently conceived by a very limited number of specialists in the field of Earth Sciences.

"Have We not made the earth as a bed, And the mountains as pegs?"(Surat An-Naba' (The Great News): 6-7) Here, I shall comment only on "And the mountains as pegs?" (Surat An-Naba' (The Great News): 7), despite the fact that the preceding one "Have We not made the earth as a bed, (Surat An-Naba' (The Great News): 6), is of great geologic interest, but should be treated in another context...

The description of mountains as pegs (or pickets) clearly implies that such striking geomorphologic features are not just the lofty elevations that are seen on the surface of the Earth (as most current glossaries and encyclopedias define them), but their downward extensions in the Earth"s lithosphere is highly emphasized. In as much as most of the picket (or peg) is hidden. in either soil or rock, and its function is to hold one end of the tent to the ground surface, modern Earth Sciences have just proved that mountains possess very deep roots that stabilize lithospheric plates.

[The downward extensions of mountains in the Earth"s lithosphere is highly emphasized]

The downward extensions of mountains in the Earth"s lithosphere is highly emphasized

What we see of mountains above the ground surface is nothing but the tops of great masses of rocks that penetrate the lithosphere and float in a more dense substratum (the asthenosphere) as icebergs float in water, with downward extensions below the ground surface that are 10 to 15 times their outward elevations (depending on the average density of the rocks of which the mountain is formed and that of the material in which its root is immersed). A mountain mass with an average specific gravity of 2.7 (that of granite) can sink into a layer of plastic simatic rock (with an average specific gravity of 3.0) until the range is floating with a submerged part (or root) of about nine-tenths, and a protrusion of one tenth its total length. Thus, we can see that by one word (awtad = pegs or pickets) the Glorious Qur"an describes both the outward lofty elevations of mountains, their very deep, downward extensions (to much greater depths than their elevations) and their function as a means of fixation for the whole planet as well as for its continental plates. The term "picket" or "peg" which is used by the Glorious Qur"an to describe mountains, is both literally and scientifically more precise than the term "root" which is currently used to describe the hidden, downward extension of mountains.

[Schematic section. Mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux,p.220)]

Schematic section. Mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux,p.220)

The fact that mountains have deep, downward extensions below the ground surface and that their main role is to stabilize the Earth as a planet, and its outer rocky layer (particularly that constitutes continental plates) have only been discerned by the specialists very recently, although scientists have pondered about the possibility of mountains having roots as early as the second half of the nineteenth century. However, the process of formation of such downward extensions as well as their role in halting the sudden, jerky movements of the planet and of its lithospheric plates have only begun to be understood in the framework of modern astronomy and of the very recent concept of plate tectonics (late 1960s and early 1970s). The precedence of the Glorious Qur"an with more than 14 centuries in describing mountains as pegs (or pickets) and in defining their main role as stabilizers for the Earth, lest it should shake with us is a clear testimony that the Qur"an is the work of the Creator, and that Muhammad (PBUH) is His final Messenger.
AND I WILL END MY TALK BY QUOTING A VERSE FROM SURAHRAHMAN
AND WHICH WHICH FAVORS OF YOUR LORD WILL YOU DENY.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy

Con

Thanks to my opponent for their rebuttal. However, I am not sure you really addressed the question as you gave a lot of definitions, but did not address the Koranic verses which are clearly saying something else.

Again I want to address what my opponent again says "WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT MOUNTAINS PREVENT EARTH QUAKE...PLZ BE SURE BEFORE STATING WRONG ABOUT QURAN". I am not sure how my opponent can say that the Koran does not mention mountains are preventing earthquakes when he states the following in his arguments.
(a) However, the process of formation of such downward extensions as well as their role in halting the sudden, jerky movements of the planet and of its lithospheric plates have only begun to be understood in the framework of modern astronomy and of the very recent concept of plate tectonics
(b) The precedence of the Glorious Qur"an with more than 14 centuries in describing mountains as pegs (or pickets) and in defining their main role as stabilizers for the Earth, lest it should shake with us is a clear testimony that the Qur"an is the work of the Creator

I believe both points (a) and (b) which are direct quotes of my opponent are simple ways of saying that mountains stop the shaking of the earth. This also states that mountains act as stabilizers against the shaking of the earth. Shaking of the earth implies earthquake or as defined by the Merriam Webster dictionary as "a shaking of a part of the earth's surface that often causes great damage".(1) In effect my opponent is countering his statement that the Koran does not say mountains prevent earthquakes, by saying that mountains prevent earthquakes. This is not taking the Koran out of context this is stating exactly what my opponents says the Koran states. I think I have proved here that the Koran is unscientific and have won this debate. However, let me address the other point my opponent has given in his rebuttal.

My opponent has stated that "The term "picket" or "peg" which is used by the Glorious Qur"an to describe mountains, is both literally and scientifically more precise than the term "root" which is currently used to describe the hidden, downward extension of mountains". I am not sure why my opponent is saying this, as I did not use the word root in my statement. A such I am not sure what he is addressing.
Let me remind my opponent what I actually said: In this way these mountains would look like pegs, but this is just a descriptive way of explaining this depth that mountains extend. Also this implies that pegs are placed in the Earth (or mountains are placed in the Earth) which is not how mountains are formed. Or according to the Koran Surah 78: 6-7 "Have We not made the earth an expanse, And the high hills bulwarks?"(2)

However, I am not sure if this makes a difference if we call it root, peg or picket as my argument stands regardless of what word is used. What is really interesting with respect to the argument my opponent makes that the Koran predicted the "pegs" of mountains 1400 years (see point (b) above) before scientists found out that mountains extend deep into the surface. Why was this knowledge only available from the Koran once the scientists had already published this information. Is it because the Islamic scholars go back after discoveries have been made and try make verses fit?(3)

Also, maybe my opponent wants to explain why the Koran is more scientific than the Hindu scripture which says the exact same things about mountains as pegs.
"Sabita made this Earth fixed by different devices (like hills and mountains) and sustains sky without pillars so that it does not move"(4) Additionally, this text existed a long time before the Koran was even prophesied by Muhammad.

I hand the debate back to my opponent.

(1) http://www.merriam-webster.com...
(2) http://www.scienceislam.com...
(3) http://www.answering-islam.org...
(4) http://www.faithfreedom.org...
Debate Round No. 2
islamandworld

Pro

Brother,You didn't get my point,or maybe you got the point hence you knowingly create misunderstandings.First of all,I challenged you to quote a verse of glorious Qur'an which says that it prevents earth quake.And unfortunately you weren't able.But you say that the concept behind these verses are that it prevents earth quake.i would like to give you an example:
Suppose you are a maths teacher and you say your students to bring their notebooks for correction.In this case their might be some students who think themselves too smart and they give you science notes while the other students know the truth i.e you ask maths notes indirectly,and they e you the right book.From the example above,I don't want to hurt the feelings of my brother.This might be your case .Allah knows the best.

A book entitled Earth is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press. He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC. His book says that mountains have underlying roots.[1] These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg

This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

"Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?" (Quran 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground (see figure 3) and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.[2] So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word "peg," since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.[3]

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.[4] They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Quran:

"And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you..." (Quran 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960"s.[5]

Could anyone during the time of the Prophet Muhammad have known of the true shape of mountains? Could anyone imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists assert? A large number of books of geology, when discussing mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth. This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology. However, modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Quranic verses.
Now,maybe my opinion will try to re-invent wrong philosophies.first of all,you should read Qur'an and understand everything.The problem with you is that you create your own concepts.If you want to know what islam is, then you should never watch any Muslim,the best to watch is Muhammad.And as far as Quran is concerned then I would suggest you to understand it.It doesn't take much time.And never feel that you have ever won this debate.my main concept is to show you all the right path.have you never thought of god.then who had created the sun,the first man,the plants,the sea and the big bang theory.Indeed there is only one god and many scientists do believe god,one of then was Albert Einstein.
I REQUEST YOU TO READ AS WELL AS UNDERSTAND QUR'AN.AND IF YOU HAD READ AND UNDERSTOOD,THEN REVISE IT THOROUGHLY.HOPE THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONS
iamanatheistandthisiswhy

Con

Thank you to my opponent for your rebuttals,however I do believe you are been disingenuous.

I am not sure what to say to my opponent really,as he repeatedly is asking me for the verse form the Koran which states that the Mountains prevent earthquakes. I have now shown this verse twice in my arguments, as such I will try again to answer my opponent and give him the verse. Please notice this is the third time.

Here is the verse from the Koran in Surah 16: 15
"And he hath cast into the earth firm hills that it quake not with you, and streams and roads that ye may find a way." (1)
Let me now break down the sentence in simple English so that my opponent can no longer claim I have not shown him the verse in the Koran which says that mountains prevent earthquakes.
It says "And he hath cast into the earth firm hills"
This means there are hills/mountains on the earth which Allah put there.
Then it says "that it quake not with you"
That the mountains will not shake with you. This means mountains don't shake,which means mountains stop earthquakes.

Again let me reiterate my earlier point this is not me misinterpreting the Koran as this view is held by other Islamic scholars.(2) Also my opponent repeatedly talks about the mountains stopping the shaking of the earth (or earthquakes) such as the following direct quotes:
"Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.[4] They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Quran:"
""And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you..." (Quran 16:15)"
I believe these quotes by my opponent prove that he believes what the Koran says about mountains stopping earthquakes.

I would also like to point out that in this debate my opponent has not answered any of the questions I have posed to him, yet he has repeatedly said I have not answered his. This seems to me to be totally disingenuous. I would also like to point out that my opponent has cited references in his third round statements but not given any, and this makes me wonder why?

I hand the debate or to the voters.

I would also like to thank my opponent for an interesting yet frustrating debate.

(1) http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
(2) http://www.scienceislam.com...
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Multi-Wargasm 3 years ago
Multi-Wargasm
YEAH! and Muhammad, peace be upon him, rode a flying horse into heaven!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Tophatdoc 3 years ago
Tophatdoc
islamandworldiamanatheistandthisiswhyTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: This was a tough debate to choose. But Con provided better sources to back his claims. I gave Con the conduct point due to Pro typing in caps your wrong and a few other words aggressively. Good luck to you both in future debates.
Vote Placed by yay842 3 years ago
yay842
islamandworldiamanatheistandthisiswhyTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: good job to the both of you for such a great debate