The Instigator
someonelol
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Debaterpillar
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

race should not be a factor for college admission

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Post Voting Period
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after 2 votes the winner is...
Debaterpillar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/22/2013 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,907 times Debate No: 39327
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

someonelol

Pro

we strongly affirm resolved: race should not be a factor for college admission. For "factor" we mean a minor one. colleges would look and check your race, and they would also decide according to it. Although many races have disadvantages from the beginning of their elementary school education, we shouldn't give advantages in getting into college because it is unfair, all applications should be based on their academic achievements, and because the students that were qualified because of their race will have too much of a hard time in the college.
The first reason is that it is unfair for some races to be harder to get into colleges and some races to be easier to get in. Everyone should have the same chance. The companies tries to find people who went to good colleges. For example, a school might have 70% of Asians so they would want to let students with other races to come in first. However It is unfair for Asians that were disqualified because of their race to get in to that college only because there are too many asians in the school. Everyone should get an equal chance. Only because the school l has too many people of a same race, it becomes an unfair competition if one is harder to get in than the other races.

The second reason is that all applicants should be held to the standards of their individual academic and extracurricular achievements. Allowing race to be weighed into the admissions process is simply illogical because no student has control over his or her ethnicity and no race should be held to a higher standard than another. People can not choose their race when they're born. Students have no control whatsoever on their race. However in the other hand, the academic achievements that the students had achieved is something that the students have a control on unlike their race. Therefore making certain races harder to get in is simply illogical so race shouldn't be factor for college admission.

The third argument is that putting students that would've been disqualified in d college would cause too much of a hard time in the college. If the student was supposed to be disqualified, it means that his or her abilities are below the average of the college. Getting in a good colleges can change a person's life, but the exams and presentations coming afterwards are big problems for them. The problems would be that the college is way above their abilities. As a result, students that got in when they were supposed to be disqualified would flunk many classes and fail many tests. even though many students might work hard enough to catch up in the college, the majority of the students that got in the college will have a hard time in the college where they were supposed to be disqualified as we explained in this speech. getting in the college is would be a big achievement for the students that were supposed to be disqualified. however succeeding in graduating in the college is a whole other thing. Therefore, giving advantages to students because of their race is not necessary and it will have negative impact on those students.

these are the three arguments why race should not be a factor for college applications. thank you.
Debaterpillar

Con

(A0) Introduction

I accept this debate and I want to thank Pro for instigating it. Being Con I will oppose the resolution "Race should not be a factor for college admission."
Before presenting my main argument of the first round and a rebuttal of Pro's arguments, I want to explicitly point out that I accept this debate with the definition that Pro himself stated for race only being a minor factor when it comes to college admissions. Also, as Pro used an example of a hypothetical college with 70 percent of students being of Asian ethnicity, this debate will not only focus on US colleges, but on the general procedure of college admissions in all countries with educational systems similar to the United States.


(A1) Argument 1: Race should be a factor for college admissions to counteract racism

If we lived in a perfect world, in which racism wouldn't be an issue, I would fully agree with Pro's position. This is however not the case.
Looking at the average US American classrooms, over 83 percent of all teachers belong to the white ethnic majority [1]. This can be detrimental for the grading of students from ethnic minorities, even independent of their actual capabilities. Even if direct and conscious racism was totally absent among teachers - which can surely not be assumed [2] - then numerous studies have demonstrated that humans tend to favor members of their own race when judging on their performances or characteristics. This well-studied phenomenon, called ethnic nepotism [3], can lead to teachers in western societies giving different grades to white and non-white students for equal performances, even when unintentional and without being aware of it.

This has actually been observed in several experiments in different countries. In a study performed in 2009, German teachers were presented with a number of essays, of which there were several doubles that only differed in that one had a typical German name as the author, while the other one claimed to be authored by a student with a Turkish name. Despite being the exactly same essays, 13.6 percent of all teachers gave worse grades to the student with the Turkish name. Contrary, and most remarkable, no teacher gave a worse grade to the essay of the 'German' student [4]. Similar results can be found for teachers in many other countries [5][6].

Therefore, students belonging to ethnic minorities are often graded worse despite showing the same performances as their peers. While the level as to which that happens can be discussed about, the effect can not be negated: A white candidate applicating for a college admission in the US is thus often exactly as qualified as a competing peer with different ethnicity and a bit worse grades.

Race should be a factor for college admissions in a way that colleges should prefer ethnic minorities to the degree, which exactly
cancels the distortion of grades due to racism both direct and indirect present in the imperfect school system.


Refutation of Pro's arguments

Pro presented three arguments to support his position. I will now go on to refute them.

(R1) "Everyone should have the same chance." - Pro.

Pro stated that it wouldn't be fair to make race a factor for college admissions, as everyone should have the same chance. As I clearly showed in my argument (A 1), to be really fair a college must make race a minor factor. Otherwise non-white students would for example be handicapped by an unjust and not race-blind grading system in high school. If Pro demands fairness, then he must accept race being a factor for college admissions.

(R2) "Allowing race to be weighed [...] is simply illogical because no student has control over his or her ethnicity and no race should be held to a higher standard than another" - Pro.

If nothing a student can't influence should play a role in the admission procedure, then academic achievements shouldn't either as intelligence has a genetic factor that students cannot control to begin with. But even if I accepted the argument to be valid, then it is basically equivalent to Pro's 'fairness' argument. If all students should only be judged based on their true academic capabilities and performances, race must be a minor factor due to (A 1).

(R 3) "The problems would be that the college is way above their [students from ethnic minorities favored over those belonging to a majority] abilities" - Pro.

Pro claimed that those, who got a college admission over a competitor belonging to the ethnic majority, will have a hard time in college and that they will maybe even fail. This is a highly tenuous argument. Not only is it again refuted by (A 1), as their actual qualifications match those of their competitors with slightly better grades, but it is nowhere evident that for example a black student with almost similar grades as his white competitor will fail college, whereas the white student would not.
Especially if race is only a minor factor, as Pro made clear, then both applicants should be very similar in their level of qualification, and both would be equally likely to fail. Thus, Pro in explicitly mentioning a 'minor factor' in his resolution refutes his own argument.


Conclusion

Pro's entire argument can be broken down to a statement which contradicts his original definition of the topic (R3), and to the issue of fairness, which I have extensively demonstrated to be only achieved by making race a factor for college admissions.


Sources
Debate Round No. 1
someonelol

Pro

someonelol forfeited this round.
Debaterpillar

Con

Pro forfeited his last round. Still hoping for his return, I will however go on to present one more argument. I consider this to be fair, as my opponent provided three arguments in his first round and as I was further able to refute all of them in only one round. I will therefore try to keep the argument short enough for Pro to answer to, should he continue the debate.


(A 2) Argument 2: Race should be a factor for college admission because of moral considerations

In the course of this argument I will not necessarily assume that (A 1) is true, so that if Pro refuted (A 1), (A 2) would still remain a valid argument. Having said that, up to this point (A 1) still remains valid and unrefuted.

Several studies point out, that members of ethnic minorities will almost generally be paid smaller wages for working in the same jobs as members of the ethnic majority, even if both have exactly the same educational background [1].
Let us take the example of a black and a white US American person both applying to college with the same grades. Since only one college admission can be granted, one of them can attend college, whereas the other will have to live with a high school degree only. Two cases can arise, which I will shortly analyze:

(i) Case 1: The white person is granted the admission
With regard to the average income of a white person with a Bachelor's degree and a black person with a high school diploma only, the eventually poorer person of them (the black one) will have an estimated work-life earning of 1.0 million dollars [2].

(ii) Case 2: The black person is granted the admission
Equivalently with regard to [2], the white person being likely poorer in the future will have an estimated work-life earning of 1.3 million dollars.

Morally, the second case is to be preferred, as the unfairness arising from the limited number of possible admissions will be at least a bit less severe, if the person deemed to be the poor one in the future will wage most of both cases.
Surely, neither case is perfectly fair, but this debate only centers on the procedure of college admissions and not on whether everyone being qualified should be granted one.

Consequently, if the differences of the grades between two college applicants are not too large, and further differences in average wages among ethnic groups only due to racism exist - which is the case - race should be a (minor) factor for college admissions.


Conclusion

All of Pro's arguments have been refuted. Pro forfeited and thus my argument (A 1) remains unrefuted. Independently, I presented another reason (A 2) for which race should be a factor for college admissions.
I hopefully await Pro's return, and I want to thank him if this is not in vain.


Sources

[1] http://www.econ.berkeley.edu...
[2] http://www.census.gov...
Debate Round No. 2
someonelol

Pro

someonelol forfeited this round.
Debaterpillar

Con

Final conclusion

The forfeit of the entire debate by Pro can be seen as concession to my arguments. While none of my arguments were refuted, all of Pro's statements were. The resolution can be seen as having been negated.

Even though Pro forfeited the debate, I still want to thank him for instigating it, and I hope my argumentation was at least interesting for any potential reader.
Race should be a (minor) factor for college admissions. Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Krieg01 3 years ago
Krieg01
Exactly right, race should not be a factor for whether you get accepted into a college or not.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
someonelolDebaterpillarTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
someonelolDebaterpillarTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: due to pros ff all of cons points remained uncontested.