The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
alvinthegreat
Con (against)
Winning
55 Points

reagan was a bad president

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/23/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,432 times Debate No: 4783
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (16)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

so i'm questioning the conventional wisdom that regean was such a great president.

the national debt went up substantially, starting with him, exponentially. now, we have the debt going up two million dollars a minute, and the everyone paying a fifth of their taxes to interest only, nothing really, and the average person is born with 30k in debt.
he wanted to spend less, but whatever the case, his tax cuts costed us this, given that spending less wasn't going to happen. it's a fundamental management aspect, that oftne gets lost in politics, that what you go in debt for, you're going to have to pay back later with interst.

unless he was justified to go into debt like that. there's the fact that the interests rates were so high, in the eighties, and the cold war.

is it realy true, that we can attribute the cold war to regan outspending them? people debate it. and on its face, it seems like it could be simply a caracature not based on much to rationalize the debt. that's a pretty profound claim. the presumptio should be against it, givne that it's so unprobable, albeit plausible?

couldn't they have given targeted tax cuts, or wouldn't the economy have taken care of itself? was it really needed for us to go so far into debt? it seems like the economy would have taken care of itself. so, shouldn't the presumptio be aginst his tax cuts being needed

so all in all,,, these are all ratianliations to get around his fiscal irresponsibility?
tax cuts can only do so much, right? i mean really, as a matter of good judgment beyond rhetoric?
so maybe he's only good, more for what he stood for than for what he did... and maybe a lot has to do with just imagery, a simple man with common sense taht somehow escapes eeryone else..... and despite what he did that was actually bad?

natial debt history
http://zfacts.com...

(plus, on abortion... he appoited some prolife judges, but he also appoited some prochoice too, just as many
(he was friends with sadam hussein if you remeber rumsfeld meeting with him back then etc, and gave osama his start with weopons)
alvinthegreat

Con

Thank you dairygirl4u2c for hosting this debate.

My opponent has asserted that Reagan was a "bad" president. Let me start first by defining "bad":

"a: failing to reach an acceptable standard : poor b: unfavorable c: not fresh : spoiled d: not sound : dilapidated " - from http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Now, in order for my opponent to actually win this debate, he or she must show that Reagan somehow fulfills one of the definitions of "bad". In my estimation, he has merely shown that Reagan perhaps was not a "Great" president, but in no way has he shown Reagan is a "bad" president.

Now to the line-by-line:

1)"Reagan increased the national debt and was fiscally irresponsible

i) Many presidents that we currently consider "great" have increased the national debt during their tenure. Examples include some of our "best" presidents such as FDR and Lincoln

ii) The economy was in a recession when he took the office. The key to stopping an economic depression is to increase government spending, as demonstrated theoretically by Keynesian School of economics and empirically by FDR during the Great Depression

iii) Reagan may have increased the debt, but he made the necessary reforms to keep the economy on it's feet. Furthermore, he presided over the longest peace-time economic boom in history, as described by Dr. Daniel J. Mitchell:

"President Ronald Reagan's record includes sweeping economic reforms and deep across-the-board tax cuts, market deregulation, and sound monetary policies to contain inflation. His policies resulted in the largest peacetime economic
boom in American history and nearly 35 million more jobs. "

http://www.heritage.org...

iv) "The economy could've taken care of itself" - this possibility is very unlikely. Like it or not, we live (and in the 1980s) in an economy basically controlled by the government (through the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department). The government can hike or lower taxes, interest rates, and tariffs at will, and can cause inflation (and deflation to a certain extent) easily. These government "controls" over the economy also gives it great powers to lift the country out of a recession. The fact is, although what my opponent suggests MAY have happened, it is very unlikely without government support.

v) The country needs government debt to survive. Watch this video, and learn: http://video.google.com...

The country's monetary supplied is virtually controlled by debt, without debt, our country would collapse

2. "We didn't have to outspend the Soviet Union" - the simple fact is, Reagan's aggressive foreign policy and military build-up served as a catalyst for the collapse of the Soviet Union. Simply said, the Soviet Economic Model did not allow for the mass-production of infnitely many consumer and military goods at the same time, thus, with prompting from Reagan, the Soviet economy basically fell apart.

Although Gorbachev and Yeltsin may have played a political role in the collapse of the Soviet Union, Reagan played a more economical role.

The economic impacts of Reagan's policies are stated by Stanford Professor Ronald Hilton: "A central instrument for putting pressure on the Soviet Union was Reagan's massive defense build-up, which raised defense spending from $134 billion in 1980 to $253 billion in 1989. This raised American defense spending to 7 percent of GDP, dramatically increasing the federal deficit. Yet in its efforts to keep up with the American defense build-up, the Soviet Union was compelled in the first half of the 1980s to raise the share of its defense spending from 22 percent to 27 percent of GDP, while it froze the production of civilian goods at 1980 levels."

(http://wais.stanford.edu...)

4. "Reagan gave Osama his weapons" - no, Reagan provided the Mujaheddin with limited weapons (mostly Stingers if I recall correctly) and limited aid to fight the Soviets, which in turn helped the Soviet Union collapse. The Mujaheddin and Al Qaida were two different organizations.

5. "Reagan appointed pro-choice justices" - ok, this is another debate for another time. As a matter of fact, Justice O'conner was often the deciding vote between the liberal and conservative factions on the court. Furthermore, Abortion is not banned today, showing that my opponent's argument fails.

In conclusion, all my opponent has shown is that Reagan may have been at worst a "mediocre" president, but not by any means a "bad president".

Vote Neg
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
alvinthegreat

Con

alvinthegreat forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
alvinthegreat

Con

I believe the voter should vote for the Negative in this debate.

First, my opponent has not answered my arguments

Secondly, I have citations from reputiable sources supporting my points, my opponent does not

Thirdly, I have not used merely subjective assertions backed with no objective evidence
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Xera 8 years ago
Xera
I always enjoy the 'national debt is bad' people. I have taken a total of ONE economics course in my life, and in that limited exposure I was able to learn that anytime the government debt is brought closer to 0, the economy suffers.
Posted by A-ThiestSocialist 8 years ago
A-ThiestSocialist
It's the mark of a poor debater when they don't analyze why national debt is bad. Saying something without impacting the argument makes the argument useless.
Posted by CiRrO 8 years ago
CiRrO
LOl, funny, I was going to say the same about you......and I did. LMAO.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 8 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
yeah, your response consisted of mere assertions and repeating yourself, so I had to do something.
Posted by CiRrO 8 years ago
CiRrO
LOL, your making another one of these debates ^^
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