The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Valkrin
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

reality is not possible

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Valkrin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/15/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,321 times Debate No: 65207
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (49)
Votes (4)

 

vi_spex

Pro

possibilities can happen, and reality is happening
Valkrin

Con

I am here to debate Pro on this topic.
First and foremost, we must define "reality" so we have a clear agreement as to what reality is.
re"al"i"ty
noun
1. the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

So, by this definition, Pro's BoP is to prove that nothing exists in the world we live in today, and it is all imagination. If I prove that at least one object in the world exists, then reality exists, therefore reality is possible.

First and foremost, opponent simply states "possibilities can happen, and reality is happening" which is a very vague sentence in the terms of this debate. Nonetheless, it essentially goes against his original claim of "reality is not possible".
If reality is happening, then wouldn't it exist?

As well, if everything was just an idea, those ideas had to be formulated by someone, that someone being yourself.
If you are able to conjure up ideas or images of the world around you, then you are an existing entity that is reality.
And if you never existed, and was just an imagination, then you wouldn't be able to respond to this debate, as I am doing so now.

By this basis, I have countered Pro's BoP and showed that at least one object is real, therefore reality is possible.

I look forward to round two.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

reality is no other possibility, absolute, and possibilities are imaginary

the world is imaginary, and anything this created is a machine

imagination is the opposite of reality, therefore doesn't exist in reality, like superman and unicorns doesn't come from reality, they are creations of the mind, stories

only if you define world as personal physical experience of now is it a true world
Valkrin

Con

"reality is no other possibility, absolute, and possibilities are imaginary"
"imaginary is the opposite of reality"

Not true. If I imagined me going out on a walk, and then I went out on that walk, that imagination became true.
What I had thought of before became a reality. Therefore reality exists, and is possible.

"the world is imaginary, and anything this created is a machine"

Machine:
a. A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies mechanical energy and transmits it in a more useful form.
b. A simple device, such as a lever, a pulley, or an inclined plane, that alters the magnitude or direction, or both, of an applied force; a simple machine.
2. A system or device for doing work, as an automobile or a jackhammer, together with its power source and auxiliary equipment.
3. A system or device, such as a computer, that performs or assists in the performance of a human task
4. An intricate natural system or organism, such as the human body.
5. A person who acts in a rigid, mechanical, or unconscious manner.
6. An organized group of people whose members are or appear to be under the control of one or more leaders

By definition, yes, the human body is a machine. It is designed with all of its parts to work in accordance with each other so that it can survive.
However, not everything created is a machine.
For instance, clothes. Clothes don't do any of the following, but they still help me from embarrassing myself in public, and they help to keep me warm. While a lot of objects in our daily lives can be considered "machines" (computers, cars, lighting, etc.) not every single thing created on our Earth is a machine.

"superman and unicorns doesn't come from reality, they are creations of the mind, stories"
But those creations exist in your mind and they are still reality, just not on a physical plane. They could exist in your mind, and if they exist (even in your mind) they are reality. The comics about Superman and stories about unicorns exist, as does imagination of them existing exist. Even if imagination exists, it isn't false, it's true, it's there, and it's reality.

I have yet another example as to how things can become reality, and how reality exists.

Looking forward to Round 3.

Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

so the walk you went out on is the one you imagined?

thoughts never become real, you are implying you are god right now.. a real god

reality is real, I never stated it was not, but let me rephrase, possibilities dosnt exist in reality, as I have to imagine them

anything that Is created or constructed is a machine, and creation only happens in the mind

my physical body is nature, and memory is the machine, my imagination is supernature, like 3 sides of a coin, true truth and false, now past and future

the opposite of physical is mental, metaphysical is mental, now, matter is physical, and information is mental, information is the opposite of matter, and matter is true balancing false and truth, now balancing future and past, I am being now, I am now

if a false answer exist a true answer must exist, and if a true answer exist a false answer must exist
Valkrin

Con

Pro demonstrates wonderfully how to ramble on, however his rebuttals are less than satisfactory.
To start off, the "truth-false" analogy is pointless. I could say 3+3=6, and it would be true, and it would be reality.
However, if I said 3+3=9, that is false, but that answer exists. While it may not be true, it is still there and is still reality.

So you state possibilities are not evident in reality...
I have the possibility to forfeit this debate.
But I'm not going to to prove the point to you.
I am in reality right now. I had the possibility to forfeit the debate, but I didn't. So a possibility exists in reality, therefore, I have successfully refuted your claim.

But as an added bonus I'll refute everything else:
"Everything that is constructed or created is a machine"
Opponent obviously forgets the clothes analogy I made in the previous argument.

"Thoughts never become real"
...what?!
If I thought I was going to read a book, and later (doesn't matter when) I read a book, that thought became a reality.
Many people had just thoughts or imagination that became reality. Creation of new machines or inventions all begin with a thought. So currently the existing items in the world had to be thought of somehow before they could be built. Overall, pointless claim.

"You are implying you are a god...a real god"
When did I imply that? Just because I imagined myself taking a walk and a few minutes later I took it, makes me a god? Sweet!
If this were true nearly everyone would be a "god" which can't be possible.

"Possibility doesn't exist in reality, as I have to imagine them"
Once more opponent forgets previous rounds. I imagined a situation happening, and then later it happened. The possibility for me to do it was there and I did it, henceforth reality.

Good luck in round four.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

3+3=6(exists in reality)
3+3=9(I have to imagine the last 3, as any false answer is imaginary)

if there is no false answer, there is no true answer

if you forfeit the debate it will happen in reality which is absolute, and while happening it is not a possibility, it is no other possibility

you cant see reality if you close your eyes, cause and effect is absolute, and logic only applies in reality, that's why I can imagine myself jump of a cliff and splat on the ground and nothing happens except maybe an emotional response, cause and effect

you have the possibility in your imagination, not in reality, the button you can click to forfeit is true light on your screen when you click it, and its not possible that it is happening, when its happening, because it is happening if you do it, like you reading these words is absolute, no possibility involved

you are abusing the language when you say that thought becomes reality.. its the same as saying what you think pops out of your head and happen in reality, that is what you are saying.. if you read a book, reality is what it is, and its only true now

your saying what you imagine becomes real, go back and read what you said.
Valkrin

Con

First of all, Pro assumes that true is reality and false is not reality, as any false answer is "imaginary".
If my parent asks me "Did you do your homework?", and I didn't, but I reply "yes I did", the truth value in that statement is false. However the statement still exists. The lie still exists. Both true and false statements are present in reality. As Pro stated above, "if a true answer exists, a false answer MUST EXIST." Therefore, since a true answer exists, so does a false one, and both were a part of reality.

As well, Pro does not seem to understand the concept of possibility. I state in R3 I have the POSSIBILITY to forfeit the debate, but I'm not going to, and pro states that this is "the only possibility with no other possibility".
"NO OTHER POSSIBILITY".
Pro explicitly states here that there is no other possibility. But, he forgets he is debating that reality is not possible, or, in his words, "possibilities don't exist in reality".
If that was the case, then how could that be "the only possibility"? Pro states here himself that possibilities exist and are real, therefore possibilities exist in reality! I've already won the debate, but I shall continue to refute:

"You are saying what you imagine becomes real"
Yes, I did say that. Anything you imagine has the possibility to become real. It may be a very small one, but the chance is still there. You could even think "I'm going to become God!" and it has a POSSIBILITY of happening. Even if it's a very low chance or nowhere near any chance (as in this case), it's still there. Possibility is still there. Yet another example to prove my point.

"You can't see reality if you close your eyes"
But your imagination IS reality, as I stated in previous arguments. So even if you can't see, you still have imagination, hence, reality.

"You have the possibility in your imagination, not reality"
Imagination is reality. Refer back to previous arguments.

Pro does not seem to refer back to my arguments and continues to rebut with his own reasons, that I have refuted. He asks questions and makes claims that have already been answered previously in the debate that he didn't (or has tried to) rebut to.

Final round, state your conclusion. Best of luck.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

2+2 is 4 because 1 is defined by something or everything, and everything is 1

if I have 2 stones in each hand I have 4 stones in my hands

memory is truth, and imagination is false

know is the balancing point between, belief and knowledge, belief is the opposite of knowledge, and know is the opposite of belief and knowledge, now balancing future and past

future=false=belief=imagination
now=true=know=physical experience
past=truth=knowledge=memory

there are no false statements in reality as you propose, its true a statement can be false but sound is true in reality, the light on my screen is true, the false part of the statement happens in your imagination. jesus walked on water, a dragon run across the field, these statemens can not be real/true

information exist beyond space and time, matter is the opposite of information, and matter is space, and space is time, the balancing point between matter and information is experience

you are misinterpreting what im saying, again, you have to imagine the possibility

if I can make an imaginary man become real I am god in reality
Valkrin

Con

Pro is obviously not reading back upon my reasoning and arguments.
I'll state two things because that's all I need to state:

1. Pro stated in his opening for round 1 "possibilities can happen" thus proving my point and making the rest of his arguments worthless, seeing as he is trying to argue reality is not possible or "there are no possibilities in reality" in his words. As well, Pro contradicts himself one more (well then) by stating we have to "imagine the possibility". As I've already proven imagination is reality, so Pro proves possibility exists in reality and backs me up once more. :)

2. I have proved over and over that possibility exists in reality. However, Pro refuses to accept and goes off topic by debating true/false statements, if your imagination is reality, and the like. I have countered his statements yet he still uses essentiAally the same argument each time. I haven proved that reality is possible and possibilities exist in reality, both of opponent's claims. The BoP was on him to prove that there was NO possibility in reality, and that reality wasn't possible at all. I have countered both of these and stated my own reasons.

I feel no need to counter Pro's arguments in R5 as I've answered most of them already. The rest are near pointless and contribute nothing to the debate.

Voters, choose wisely. Thank you for the debate.
Debate Round No. 5
49 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
you imagine superman standing in your neighbours house watching you with his x ray vision, but ofc this dosnt exist..

if imagination dosnt exist, god dosnt exist

2+2 pens dosnt equal 5, as I have to imagine a fifth pen

reality is absolute, absolute just means no other option, and if you have no other option of reading these words on the screen then to have your eyes open and look, then your eyes are absolute, cause and effect
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
More gibberish ...
Ideas that are True are real- they exist.
Ideas that are False aren't real- they don't exist.
There is nowhere in the universe, in reality, where 2+2=5.
It's impossible to Imagine that 2+2=5.

In his basic 1950 book on Dianetics, L. Ron Hubbard stated
that Absolutes have to be considered logically unobtainable.
There can't be any such thing as absolute reality.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
its like a boxing match on 10 seconds

I cant challenge you, you don't accept challenges it says
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
Stop whining XD
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
cant get anywhere with 5 rounds, its to big a subject
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
Spex, send me a challenge for the atheism = theism debate you had up earlier. I'm interested in it.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
thoughts are not real, but they exist, as I have said many times, false exist
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
But they still exist inside a person's thoughts. And if something exists it is reality. Apparently you don't understand. I am done arguing with you. You obviously know nothing of what you are debating about. I try to reason with you yet you seem unable to comprehend that and instead shove your opinions down my throat, most of which aren't factually true.
We never speak from this point forward. Reply to the debate with your comments, I don't care. Chances are I've already answered it anyway. And try to do research before debating and don't just throw your own opinions at me.
Thank you, have a nice day, and try to learn the topic before debating it.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
the opposite of physical is mental, anything is physical, nothing is..

if we cut open a head and take out the brain, we cant poor the information, mind out on the floor, so they are not things, they are nothing

information exist outside space and time, matter is space and time
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
But again, how is it relevant?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by CarlSaganT3 2 years ago
CarlSaganT3
vi_spexValkrinTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made no compelling points and was unclear with his or her language throughout the debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
vi_spexValkrinTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't capitalize, and used the wrong "your", so s and g to con. Pro failed to convincingly explain the difference between reality and existence, so arguments to con. Con was the only one with sources.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
vi_spexValkrinTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: pro offers nothing to support his mere assertions, while con uses sources, facts, and logic to show that reality is possible.
Vote Placed by BLAHthedebator 2 years ago
BLAHthedebator
vi_spexValkrinTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Aren't both sides contradicting themselves according to their positions and the resolution?