The Instigator
lastronin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
joze14rock
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

religion shouldn't be explicitly mentioned in the Constitution

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/29/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,176 times Debate No: 4273
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

lastronin

Pro

"religion" is a term and an idea we grew up with. Amending the Constitution now will not make the term go away. Even if we were to step back in time and rewrite the Constitution (pretend we're at the Constitutional Convention), religion-inspired ideals pervade our having been there at the Convention, given that we had just drafted the Declaration of Independence with verbiage to the effect "endowed by our Creator" and such.
The Founding Fathers were grasping with principles to form a new government. One of those principles was "law." And they had to base that law on something. They chose, in the First Amendment, to neither officially recognize any particular religion nor to disallow its practice. So they do recognize the very idea of "religion." BUT, since it was not in the main body of the Constitution but tacked on as an Amendment, although a rather important one, they did not feel that religion was important to the workings of a Republic, especially at the Federal level.
The Preamble and basing law on "We the People" perhaps is as good as it gets and is sufficient. Although the Amendments address individuals' rights, the Articles alone are sufficient to address any quarrels we might have when it comes to religion and religious practices. For example, the Supreme Court could delegate to lower courts.
joze14rock

Con

I'm sorry but I just have to giggle a little here by what I've discovered.

Please go to this website:

http://www.usconstitution.net...

The ENTIRE American Constitution is texted out on this website

Then press CTRL-F and type "religion" and "God"

NOWHERE ONCE, (except, of course, in the first Amendment) do you find the word "religion" or "God" intertwined in the text.

I do believe this should clearly win me the debate right away because obviously my opponent lacks knowledge of Constitutional Law.

The resolution of this debate is NOT a resolution, it's a fact: Yes, yes it is true that "religion [isn't] explicitly mentioned in the Constitution"

Ughh... so their isn't anything to debate.

So I will create a new resolution, and that revolves around defending the 1 Amendment:

I dearly hope that my opponent knows (for it sounds like he doesn't) that the Founding Fathers drafted the Bill of Rights (i.e. Amendments) last. They wrote everything else first, and when the Antifederalist demanded that a Bill of Rights be instituted to safeguard individual rights, the Federalists conceded an tacked it on with the rest of the Constitution, allowing for ratification from all 13 States.
So my point is this: The First Amendment that my opponent is attacking was created, with the rest of the amendments, last in construction of our U.S Constitution
("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.")

Does that mean that our Founding Fathers had no opinions or concerns of religion when they were drafting the Constitution?
No, of course Not!!!

Keep in mind, the Founding Fathers completely strayed away from the idea of Divine Right which the English Monarch had used to carry out its power of exploitation.

This was the time of the Post-Enlightenment, religious foundations were slowly being grinded away by the chisle of Modern Science.
What was so amazing about the early colonists of the 13 Colonies was that most were vastly educated in theology, philosophy, law, politics, etc.; you could sit down and have a theological debate with a simple farmer from those 13 colonies.

Anyways, the Founding Fathers were indoctrinated with all this enlightenment knowledge- from Locke to Newton, they knew it all.
And so they were not drowned by Religious (specifically Christian) dogma.

In fact, a lot of the Founding Fathers were devout Deist (Jefferson and clues Washington was as well).

But just like any Deist, they understood that religion was vital to the moral foundation of civilization (keep in mind this was before Nietzsche!!).

So the simple point is this:

The Founding Fathers, from the outset (contrary to what my opponent thinks), believed that Religion should not be the motivating force of the law.
Take this example: Instead of religion being the engine of the car, the Founding Fathers felt that religion is more like the Air Conditioner of the Car.
Not a necessary force to motivate political realms of these United States, but merely a moral accessory that is vital only in stability of cultural and social norms.

The Founding Fathers had the First Amendment in mind in the very beginning of the Revolution!!!

And as for the Declaration of Indepedence and "Endowed by our Creator"- Like I said, the Founding Fathers were either Deists or Religious folks.
But they used those words figuratively and symbolically rather than taking it entirely by heart.
It is like the Porn Star saying "Oh My God, Oh my God, Jesus Christ!!!" when she's getting drilled by some guy- a crude and vulgar example, but the same sense!
Debate Round No. 1
lastronin

Pro

lastronin forfeited this round.
joze14rock

Con

I guess lastronin went to the website and realized the resoultion is utterly stupid...

I need 100 characters. So let me once again reiterate my argument:
The Resoultion is dumb because it is a fact that the term "religion" or "God" is not EXPLICITLY mentioned anywhere in the U.S Constitution, except in the 1st Amendment.

The Founding Fathers had a deistic mindset when they were drafting the Constitution, and tried their best to eliminate religion from politcal and judicial realms. They only saw religion as important in social and moral realms for the new nation.

And the Porn Star is still saying "Oh My God!!"
Debate Round No. 2
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by SweetBags 9 years ago
SweetBags
interesting, i might take this if i have time.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by matthewleebrown14 9 years ago
matthewleebrown14
lastroninjoze14rockTied
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Vote Placed by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
lastroninjoze14rockTied
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Vote Placed by joze14rock 9 years ago
joze14rock
lastroninjoze14rockTied
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Total points awarded:03