The Instigator
steffon66
Con (against)
Losing
11 Points
The Contender
OneWay-MyWay
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points

religion... is it good or bad?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
OneWay-MyWay
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 582 times Debate No: 54311
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (6)

 

steffon66

Con

religious morality consists of nothing other than ancient peoples likes and dislikes. as our likes and dislikes change so does our morality. we need to learn to use more than arbitrary reasoning to determine what is right and wrong. we need to use more than our conscience also as the conscience is nothing more than vague reminiscences of precepts heard in early youth so its never smarter than ones mother and father and most people have to be wrong as there are more than a thousand opposing moralities. people actually believe that without religion we would all be wicked. it seems to morally competent people that those who have held to religion the most have been for the most part extremely wicked. back in the so called ages of faith when people really did believe in the christian religion in all of its completeness there was the inquisition with its tortures. millions of unfortunate women were burned as witches and there was every kind of cruelty practiced on all sorts of people in the name of religion. this is what our "good" people did before we started becoming secular. the church has opposed almost every moral progress in the world like every mitigation of slavery, every step towards the better treatment of colored races, the diminution of war, almost every improvement in criminal law, and every improvement in humane feeling. the more intense has been the religion of any period and the more profound has been the dogmatic belief, the greater has been the cruelty and the worse has been the state of affairs. peoples moralities are congruent with the precepts they've heard in early youth and i think we need a better source for precepts than books that say slavery and cruelty are appropriate and that the entire humane race started with just two people. its wrong both morally and scientifically and
we can do better. theism is the belief in god and atheism is the belief that there is no god. well believing isnt knowing and there is no word for someone who knows that there is a god so id say the agnostics who say i dont know are more rational than anyone. people dont need religion to believe in god and to believe in consequences and that is the only good thing about religion. it slows moral progress and without religion just as many people would be god fearing people. that wouldnt change. and religion most definately slows moral progress.
OneWay-MyWay

Pro

Religion is a good thing. Sure the ways of the Church are old and slow. That"s the beauty of it. Everything the Church does is deliberate founded in tradition. The Church is a beacon of hope to over 2.2 billion people around 30% of the world"s population. Churches are the largest charities in the world. The Church has cultivated learning and was the biggest reasons we have universities of higher learning. They have also been a major help in the field of science. The list continues of amazing things the Church does for the world.

The point that my opponent is making about moral relativism is a flawed idea of morality. Moral relativism would claim that there is no truth there is no way for an absolute and that is destructive to a society. If there are no truths then there is no way for ethical living and creates moral dilemmas. There are obvious truths of morality. Morality is not based on one"s own feelings. There are things that no matter what Natural law would tell you are wrong. The slow progression of morality in the Church is because as the world advances and the technology grow there are issues that were not around in the preceding decades, issues that they will muster over until they are sure on their stance. Society has transformed time and time again, the Church has always remained rooted in tradition.

The claim of the bible supporting slavery is not entirely accurate slavery as described in the bible is much different than capturing and selling of people. The bible condemns the practice of that kind of slavery in Exodus 21:16. The type of slavery in the bible is that of selling yourself into "slavery" very similar to a employee. Poor people would provide labor in exchange for food and shelter. They choose to put themselves there because otherwise they would die. Because this practice is widely used in biblical times there are rules laid out in the bible that were meant to protect the voluntary slavery. The bible also talks about how there is no difference in his eyes between free and slaves they are all his children.

As for the story of creation there is not a problem with the theory of evolution you can believe in both. The bibles books are all written with different purposes by the author. By identifying the type of literature you are reading you can better understand what the bible is saying. The book of Genesis was written poetically. The book explains extraordinary things that could not be explained through stories. The ideas in Genesis are true God did create the world and the whole universe is true. Now did it happen in 7 days or over the course of 5 billion years no one can truly answer that.
Debate Round No. 1
steffon66

Con

what my opponent said about religion the church cultivating learning and contributing to science isnt true. the only contribution the church has made to society is an improvement on our calender. as for what the church has done for the world... lol it gets people to believe in sugar plum fairies and stuff instead of science which is the opposite of a contribution to science and it has perpetuated ancient cruelties and moral incompetency. according to the bible you can do what ever you want and be forgiven as long as you believe blindly in a messiah whoms story consists of several parts of old stories of older "saviors" like the virgin birth, the star in the east signaling the birth, being adorned by three kings, walking on water healing the sick and the blind, disapearing at age twelve to return at age 30 needing to be baptized, and many other things. when i was little i prayed every night for a new bicycle before i learned that the christian god didnt work like that so i stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. the catholic church says that people cant use birth control so when a lady marries a guy with syphilis unknowingly and finds out he has syphilis the catholic church gives them two options. split up and endor celebacy or stay together and have syphilitic children. and several children have been born with syphilis because of the catholic church and this is just one example of many ways the church punishes children for the sins of the parent and of course they are going to when their religion says stuff like exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, so since they think this extremely imperfect god is perfect they are extremely imperfect in an attempt to be like this indecent god. not to mention the church is an unneeded becon of hope as without religion people would still believe in god and still have hope and id rather them use their own imaginations then for a religion to tell them that they can do whatever they want as long as they ask for forgiveness and believe in something. id rather them use their own imaginations than for a religion to tell them that beliefs are punishable while actions are not. no wander people in the ages of faith were torturing people for their beliefs because this god and many others are said to do this in a mans attempt to sell the religion. i dont know what my opponent is talking about when he says that i say that there are no truths because i believe in many truths. science is full of them. and their truths dont contradict other facts like religious truths do. facts dont contradict facts. he says that morality is not based on ones own feelings while it is a scientific fact that many people use the part of the brain that deals with emotions when trying to determine what is appropriate instead of the part of the brain that deals with analytical reasoning. he says the reason our moralities have changed in history is because of technology and because we have new issues which werent around in previous years. lol but there were issues back in the ages of faith like people burning people as witches and practicing every kind of cruelty on all sorts of people in the name of religion and slavery for that matter. your telling me that without technology these things would be appropriate? thats what you implied. obviously my opponent is morally incompetent. he cant give an example of how technology changes our moralities hes just hoping youll by that and wont believe the truth which is that people for the most part are morally incompetent. thats why everybodies morality is different. they cant all be right when they all contradict each other. religion obviously isnt helping in this area and infact it makes it worse. every religions morality contradicts every other religions morality causing wars over conflicts that it creates and tricking people into reading and believing instead of thinking. he who reads too much and thinks too little forms lazy thinking habits. also the reason morality is changing is not because of technology. it is because of generation after generation of free thinkers who from the present time to the renessaince have made religious people ashamed of their traditional beliefs. my opponent says that what i say about the bible being for slavery isnt entirely accurate which is funny because being right or wrong is an absolute state that is not subject to gradation. its either for or against slavery and its for it. leviticus 25:44-46 says As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly. im not even going to read any more of my opponents arguement because he is lying and any fool can see that im winning this debate
OneWay-MyWay

Pro

OneWay-MyWay forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
steffon66

Con

well my opponent forfeited this round and i have nothing more to say at this time
OneWay-MyWay

Pro

OneWay-MyWay forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Neoman 2 years ago
Neoman
@trustme sorry.
@willriley bible cannot be taken as a reliable source. as its full of assumptions/predictions. here: let me give you an example: Riley, my son, you will not die in a 7 days period. So if you are still breathing in this period I predicted your future. Please dont worship me though i wouldnt want that.
Posted by Neoman 2 years ago
Neoman
@trustme bible cannot be taken as a reliable source. as its full of assumptions/predictions. here: let me give you an example: Riley, my son, you will not die in a 7 days period. So if you are still breathing in this period I predicted your future. Please dont worship me though i wouldnt want that.
Posted by TrustmeImlying 2 years ago
TrustmeImlying
WillRiley

"Also, you're obviously new, here we like to capitalize our sentences, as well as not say "lol" all the time in our debates."

An excellent point, you must be new as well, you voted for the person that forfeited. You've shown your integrity and subjectivity on the matter.

"You cant repopulate the earth with two animals of each species, and yet you believe in evolution."

You might shy away from topics you haven't come to understand, or try and pursue the task of making Noah's ark sound intelligible.

"This condemns Racism (Jew nor Gentile)"
God routinely ordered genocides of entire peoples based on their ethnicity and nationality.

" Slavery (Slave nor Free) and Sexism (Male and Female)"
God lays down several rules on proper slave ownership and the ownership of women by men.

"Now in saying that, you must realize that Christ's teachings were all about love and compation for our fellow human beings."

You might want to brush up on the teachings of your Jesus. He demanded obedience to the old laws of himself/father.

Matthew 5:17-20
Luke 16:17
2 Timothy 3:16
Mark 7:10
Matthew 15:4-7
Matthew 5:27
1 Peter 2:18
John7:19
John 10:35

Finally, I suspect you'll return with apologetic nonsense about me "reading it wrong" to which I would direct you to 2 Peter 20-21

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation"

In this book, what you read is what you get. Not even Jesus wanted anyone to be able to manipulate his words as is attempted daily.

The guy you were talking to was pretty sloppy in his manner and delivery, but you weren't any better.
Posted by WillRiley 2 years ago
WillRiley
Also, you're obviously new, here we like to capitalize our sentences, as well as not say "lol" all the time in our debates.
Posted by WillRiley 2 years ago
WillRiley
You are embarrassing yourself. Oh really? You cant repopulate the earth with two animals of each species, and yet you believe in evolution.
From Wikipedia article on Evolution-
All life on Earth is descended from a last universal ancestor.
Also, you quote the Old Testament, which is harsh, because Jesus had not yet given his life so that you and I could be forgiven. You want to know what the Bible really teaches?
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28
This condemns Racism (Jew nor Gentile) Slavery (Slave nor Free) and Sexism (Male and Female)
Also this- Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
Now in saying that, you must realize that Christ's teachings were all about love and compation for our fellow human beings. Now, I know you will try to bring up the old testament talking about stoning, but hear this-
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst,
4 they said unto Him, "Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us that such should be stoned but what sayest thou?"
6 This they said testing Him, that they might have cause to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He lifted Himself up and said unto them, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Also, remember, we aren't Jews. We are Christians. and first and foremost we follow CHRIST. Not David, not Moses, or any of the old testament prophets. We believe in loving God, and loving our neighbor.
Posted by steffon66 2 years ago
steffon66
so the bible is still wrong about a lot of things. it says we know right from wrong while every precept is controversial. it says that men existed on the 7th day of the creating of earth and we didnt get here till billions of years after the earth came to be. you cant repopulate the world with animals when you only have two of each species so the story of adam and eve is wrong. and the story of noah it says god is perfect while it also says he punishes people for things that are beyond their control. he decided that every human and every animal in the world from beginning to end will suffer from evil and possibly hell just because adam and eve screwed up which was beyond our control. in the story of noah it says god whiped out the world and killed children and animals when he is all powerful and could have just killed the wicked. in exodus 20: 5 it says i am a jealous god punishing the children for the sins of the parent up to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. th
Posted by debate_power 2 years ago
debate_power
The beauty of the Bible is that, if you've actually read it, it doesn't refute the theory that the Earth is several million years old. Also, the "likes and dislikes of ancient people" that you mentioned seem key points in most other religions. Having a moral code of the sort written in the Bible means you're less likely to be a hindrance to society but rather a boon to it. It all depends, I suppose, on your point of view: self-centered or self-less...
Posted by steffon66 2 years ago
steffon66
i was unable to come back to this dabate for the second round until my message thing told me i had a due arguement. how do i find my debates? im kind of new to this website.
Posted by steffon66 2 years ago
steffon66
thanks
Posted by Elijahhill97 2 years ago
Elijahhill97
good argument. should be interesting to watch!
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by birdlandmemories 2 years ago
birdlandmemories
steffon66OneWay-MyWayTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter SGM
Vote Placed by WillRiley 2 years ago
WillRiley
steffon66OneWay-MyWayTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Awful capitalization, ignoring the reason of forfeiture, and just generally horrible arguments on the part of Con. Pro made good arguments that actually made sense. Con said that the only thing the Church helped with was a calendar. However, during the middle ages countless monasteries ran hospitals, libraries, schools, and orphanages, all through the Church.
Vote Placed by SGM_iz_SekC 2 years ago
SGM_iz_SekC
steffon66OneWay-MyWayTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con made better arguments.
Vote Placed by LittleBallofHATE 2 years ago
LittleBallofHATE
steffon66OneWay-MyWayTied
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Reasons for voting decision: "im not even going to read any more of my opponents arguement because he is lying and any fool can see that im winning this debate" I voted for pro because I found his arguments more convincing. Even if I didn't, I'd vote for him just for the comment quoted, above. Even though he didn't finish the debate, I can't blame him. I would have bailed too. It's a wonder anyone actually voted for you. Your behavior was despicable. You're not here to debate. You're hear to sling mud. You're pathetic. May God have mercy on your soul.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
steffon66OneWay-MyWayTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Wow, both sides had quite the walls-o-text here. Really made it hard to read. But conduct for the forfeits, and since Pro abandoned this debate, Con's arguments wind up standing, so arguments to Con. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
Vote Placed by LenaQueen 2 years ago
LenaQueen
steffon66OneWay-MyWayTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: When Pro forfeited, s/he mentioned why in the comments, and Con didn't seem to respect that. S+G: Con never capitalized the first letters. Arguments: I know a lot of what Con said was untrue or at least not the whole truth, and s/he never talked about religions other than Christianity. Pro's arguments were through and as far as I know true. Sources: Neither side included sources