required threshhold of faith required for Christians to be saved is not clear
Debate Rounds (3)
the bible says if you confess with your mouth jesus is lord, and beleive in your heart that he was raised from the dead you will be saved. it also say if you believe in the lord you will be saved. it also has all kinds of other statements.
i'm sure if you do these, that is sufficient. but what about various other scenarios, like the content of 'sinner's prayers' that dont include those things?
what or where exactly is the threshhold?
if you believe he existed or is God is that enough? probably not cause the bible says demons do likewise.
what about a list of of common beleifs? that you rely on him generally, that he is your savior, that you are a sinner, that he is lord, tha he rose from the dead, that he was incarnated, that he is God, that he is the son of God, that you believe you are saved (plenty of christians say you must believe you are saved, or you aren't saved), substitutionary atonement v 'christus victor' etc etc.
ask different christians, get a different answer, almost every time. they just have 'gut feelings' but dont have firm answers. see past debates from me on this topic, and you'll note a different answer pretty much every time.
some say you have to admit you're a sinner and that he is your savior. what if you believed all the other things and not these? or what if you believe you're a sinner, and that he's a savior, but not that he's God, or a various type of atonement belief. eg, chrsitaus victor v substitutionary.
some say that he is God is required, some say legal substitution is mandatory.
and how do you demarcate the requirements for those who are new to the faith, and those who are really knowledgeable? it might be seen a okay for a newbie to miss a thing or two, but less understandable for the expreinced etc. does this come into play?
so what's the magical formula?
1. That because of sin you have a wrong relashonship with God and are going to hell Romans 3:23
2.that God sent his son to die for the sins of his people removing barrier between God and Man. John 10:11
3. All who believe on him will have eternal life . John 3:16
4.the whole gospel is from the bible and only the bible I believe that the bible was inspired by God and is there fore completely true
did you all know there is a magic four pronged approach to salvation? see con's four points. so con is saying someone who doesn't believe the bible is true will be condemned, per prong four? they can admit they are a sinner and jesus is the savior, but question the bible, and they are condemned?
plus while con gave a four prong approach, he also insisted you must believe JEsus is God. that is prong five? they can believe all four of cons explicit prongs, but question that he is God, and they are condemned? unless you were just stating that you believe it is a side issue but clear that Jesus is God?
what about someone who doesn't acknowlege they are sinful per prong one. but confess with their mouth that Jesus is lord and that he was risen from hte dead? that is an explicit command for who can be saved from the bible. they might even consider Jesus as God. does con go against, or add and subtract, from the bible?
the way con is trying to argue it, salvation should come in reading the bible and doing what it says as if it is inerrant. that way he doesn't have to get tripped up on some specific idea of what needs believed when i can just throw a loop in it like the last paragraph or first post. but then it'd be too vague, cause no one agrees with what the bible means. to be sure, abiding in his word doesn't necessarily mean followng the bible, it could just mean following the spririt. that could be how God structured everything. to be sure, there are plenty who believe most fundamental things but question based on the bible whether Jesus is God.
1.God created man perfect but man sinned against God putting his wrath on them. Rom. 3:23
2. God loved the world and sent Jesus , the son of God born of a virgin fully God and man, to die for the sins of his people. John 3:16, john 10:11.
3 all who believe on him shall have eternal life. John 3:16
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Alpha3141 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: I agree with Con. The Bible is clear. What it teaches is clear. The only way to say it isn't is if you haven't read it or if you misinterpret it.
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