The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
dLion15
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

self defense, tiller's abortions, and someone killing two year olds: same thing

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/27/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 507 times Debate No: 34245
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

tiller is a man who did late term abortions, of viable babies, for trivial reasons. one example is he killed a baby at 26 weeks because the mom wanted to go to a rock concert. he did not comply with rules that determine how to determine viability, etc.

the next hypothetical says that a man is killing two year olds illegally.

how is it different to be doing illegal abortions, than someone killing two year olds? it's essentially the same thing.

for that reason, if we see that politics and law aren't working to stop the two year old killer, we should engage in defense of others and shoot the man killing the children. in teh same manner, at least when he's doing those illegal abortions mentioned, we should engage in defesnse of others of the babies being aborted, at least right before the abortion occurs.

how are these situations different?
if you use the soverignty of the mom... how is it not her fault that she didnt abort earlier when morally grayer (even the law recognizes no absolute right), and how not her fault that she is at least partially responsible for the child's existance etc?

please say how these situations are different.
dLion15

Con

Very Well, I will show you the difference.
Lets start off with the hypothetical mother.
She is indeed killing a unborn child, however it is in the good of her own conscious, killing the young fetus in such a way and killing a two year old child are both illegal, however that does not mean it makes them relatively the same.
Your logic is simply, since both are being killed, the situations are similar, if not the same.
They are not at all the same, the logic here is flawed. It is as if I was to say that a bank robbery and a corner store shooting are the exact same thing. No! Simply because they are both illegal and may have the same effects does not mean they are the same.

Just because in both stated situations, a young baby dies and its illegal, does not make the two situations similar. First of all the 2 year old who was killed was killed by someone who most likely did not have the right to take a young child's life, especially it it was illegal.
The mother to be, however did morally have the right to kill the fetus growing in her, however the only issue here is that she did it both at the wrong time and in a amoral and illegal manor.
Here the mother is indeed responsible for that unborn child, however the argument on why she didn't abort earlier is not a valid argument, because even if she had aborted earlier it could have still been in a amoral and illegal situation.
Also, comparing an unborn life which had been being created in a fetus for 6.5 months to a child living for at least 24 months is not the best debate to put up.
If you do not like my response, simply respond and we can keep this argument going. :)
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
dLion15

Con

dLion15 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

didnt post soon enough.
my response was posted in the comments section. i repost it here.

you post reasons why they are not the same. but none of them really follow as to actually differntiating them.

"First of all the 2 year old who was killed was killed by someone who most likely did not have the right to take a young child's life, especially it it was illegal. The mother to be, however did morally have the right to kill the fetus growing in her, however the only issue here is that she did it both at the wrong time and in a amoral and illegal manor.

i think immoral and amoral are the same thing. how are they not? unless you are just being contradictory in your words.
also, how is it moral to allow a woman to abort a viable baby for trivial reasons? you didnt say how it's moral, just asserted that it was.

"Here the mother is indeed responsible for that unborn child, however the argument on why she didn't abort earlier is not a valid argument, because even if she had aborted earlier it could have still been in a amoral and illegal situation.

it could have been, but so what? then it'd be wrong then too. doesn't follow that that makes all abotions morally legit, even the illegal of viable for trivial reaosns ones.
it's necessarily possible that she could have aborted when she had a huge window of opportunity. and add to that her partial responsibility for the baby, and you have no reason to allow it that late in pregnancy etc.

"Also, comparing an unborn life which had been being created in a fetus for 6.5 months to a child living for at least 24 months is not the best debate to put up.

what does time have to do with anything? it's not like it's even debateable if it's a real person or not and all that stuff. one might not look at bad, as you say a corner killing v a robbery killing, but they are both murders. even if you read into it that one might be considered "understandable" than another one doesn't make it right in any real significant sense. just because abortion in general is debatable ddont throw the baby out with the bath water. not all abortions are "understandable" killings that should be let slide, much at all beyond what we'd do with two year olds being killed.
dLion15

Con

dLion15 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
ddont throw the baby out with the bath water. not all abortions are "understandable" killings that should be let slide, much at all beyond what we'd do with two year olds being killed.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
didnt post soon enough.
my response

you post reasons why they are not the same. but none of them really follow as to actually differntiating them.

"First of all the 2 year old who was killed was killed by someone who most likely did not have the right to take a young child's life, especially it it was illegal. The mother to be, however did morally have the right to kill the fetus growing in her, however the only issue here is that she did it both at the wrong time and in a amoral and illegal manor.

i think immoral and amoral are the same thing. how are they not? unless you are just being contradictory in your words.
also, how is it moral to allow a woman to abort a viable baby for trivial reasons? you didnt say how it's moral, just asserted that it was.

"Here the mother is indeed responsible for that unborn child, however the argument on why she didn't abort earlier is not a valid argument, because even if she had aborted earlier it could have still been in a amoral and illegal situation.

it could have been, but so what? then it'd be wrong then too. doesn't follow that that makes all abotions morally legit, even the illegal of viable for trivial reaosns ones.
it's necessarily possible that she could have aborted when she had a huge window of opportunity. and add to that her partial responsibility for the baby, and you have no reason to allow it that late in pregnancy etc.

"Also, comparing an unborn life which had been being created in a fetus for 6.5 months to a child living for at least 24 months is not the best debate to put up.

what does time have to do with anything? it's not like it's even debateable if it's a real person or not and all that stuff. one might not look at bad, as you say a corner killing v a robbery killing, but they are both murders. even if you read into it that one might be considered "understandable" than another one doesn't make it right in any real significant sense. just because abortion in general is debatable
Posted by Skeptikitten 3 years ago
Skeptikitten
Cutting and pasting the same nonsense repeatedly will never make it correct, dear.
Posted by Nordenkalt444 3 years ago
Nordenkalt444
Why do you keep making the same sh!t?
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
i edited the debate to focus on that
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
again, please focus right away on the two year old hypothetical. if they were killing two year olds etc etc...
in case anyone is wondering, yes this is why i started the debates again. waiting for people to actually address that argument. preferably something more than just "not the same"
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