The Instigator
americanmade23
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
WillYouMarryMe
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

should America be more conservative about who we let in through our borders?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
WillYouMarryMe
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 395 times Debate No: 71561
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

americanmade23

Pro

I believe that we as America should be more conservative with who we let through our borders. if we don't then we are going to be overwhelmed because our population will grow too much too fast as it already is. I am not saying however that if the people come in correctly and legally that we should set them back out because we shouldn't. we should just shut out the illegal immigrants
WillYouMarryMe

Con

I will use this round to state my position and give a brief outline of my argument, just as Pro has done. I support adopting an open borders policy similar to that of the EU, which allows for workers and their families to freely immigrate into the country for the purposes of finding work (standard border security measures would still be in place, of course). My case revolves around 1) the fundamental human right to pursue happiness, 2) the injustice of job discrimation based on nationality, and 3) the economic benefits of adopting such a policy. Remember that an open borders policy only allows people to *immigrate*-- it does not automatically grant them citizenship or allow them to immediately start collecting government benefits. With that all said, I look forward to seeing Pro's case.
Debate Round No. 1
americanmade23

Pro

I agree that certain peoples should be allowed in because of what we have said in our own laws. however, I believe that with workers coming in that that will upset the already some what fragile balance of the working peoples in America. yes, everyone in this world has a right to live, travel, work where they please but it should be monitored of how many people do just that without concern or maybe knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes.
WillYouMarryMe

Con

C1) Justice

The United States government recognizes that a fundamental right for *all* human beings (not just US citizens) is the right to pursue happiness, which entails the right to raise a family, the right to earn a living, and other things of the like. Again, this is recognized as a *human* right, so it applies regardless of which country a person wishes to pursue happiness in. What closed borders do, then, is serve to inhibit this right to pursue happiness by restricting access to jobs within the United States. This is a completely arbitrary and unjust restriction, as people have literally no control whatsoever over which country they are born into-- they cannot change the decisions and socioeconomic situation of their parents, nor can they change the historical events that shaped international borders. A person's country of origin is completely arbitrary, and so it is not fair to stop them from obtaining a job solely on the basis that they were born elsewhere. Discrimination on the basis of nationality is no less unjust than discrimination on the basis of gender or race. Any reasonable sense of justice requires that we allow for people to transverse borders when it is for the purpose of finding work. The US government is obligated to protect the fundamental human right to the pursuit of happiness by opening its borders to immigrant workers.

C2) Economics

I have run out of time, so I'll finish making this argument next round, but for now, C1 alone negates the resolution by showing that justice requires the implementation of my open borders counter-plan.
Debate Round No. 2
americanmade23

Pro

The idea of what is "justice" is in itself debatable and controversial. Is it justice to allow access without proper documentations? Is it justice to allow those same people to get jobs that others try to get but don't get?
WillYouMarryMe

Con

NVM economics. Too lazy.

Pro has not refuted my argument from justice at all. Simply saying "justice is debatable" does not refute my case... yes, justice is debatable-- which is why Pro should actually *debate* it, rather than just dismiss it off-hand. Pro admits that the right to pursue happiness is a fundamental human right and that the government is obligated to protect it, so he is basically conceding this argument...

Pro's only argument is that we shouldn't allow too much immigration because our population will rise too fast and it will destabilize the economy. In reality, the US does not have a population problem; if anything, it needs as *more* young, productive workers in its population:

"...total fertility rates (TFRs) are plummeting around the world. Population stability is achieved when each woman bears an average of 2.1 kids over the course of her lifetime"one for her, one for her male partner, and a little overage to make up to childhood deaths. Today, there are sixty countries in which TFRs are below 2.1. For example, the European Union's TFR is 1.5 and no EU member state has a TFR at replacement or above. Even high population developing countries have seen steep declines in fertility. Since 1970, China's TFR fell from 5.8 to 1.6; India's from 5.8 to 2.9; Indonesia from 5.6 to 2.4; Japan's from 2.0 to 1.3; Mexico's from 6.8 to 2.4; Brazil's from 5.4 to 2.3; and South Africa's from 5.9 to 2.7. The U.S. TFR dropped from 2.55 in 1970 to around 2.1 today, largely because of the influx of higher fertility immigrants. However, the fertility of second generation Americans drops to the level of longer established Americans." [1]

The US has avoided getting into the population crisis of places like Europe and Japan only because it has allowed immigration, and even still its fertility rates are dropping. Thus, Pro's claim is blatantly false; opening borders will not result in overpopulation-- it will only ensure the good health of our economy in the long run.

In conclusion, Pro has not even attempted to contest my argument from justice, and his economics argument has been refuted. Thus, the resolution is negated.

[1] http://reason.com...
Debate Round No. 3
americanmade23

Pro

congrats you have made me look dumb and won this debate
WillYouMarryMe

Con

I think that was a concession...
Debate Round No. 4
americanmade23

Pro

yes it was. i have not much knowledge of this topic just opinion and you shouldn't debate on just opinion. you win.
WillYouMarryMe

Con

I accept my opponent's concession.

Vote me.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by americanmade23 1 year ago
americanmade23
i will return to debate or at least give my opinion. i wish to see others opinions and knowledge on the matter. i don't however wish to instegate anything.
Posted by StalinIncarnate 1 year ago
StalinIncarnate
This is the type of debate that the instigator makes a statement, and then never returns.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
americanmade23WillYouMarryMeTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by Varrack 1 year ago
Varrack
americanmade23WillYouMarryMeTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gracefully conceded so I will give him a mercy point for admitting that he lost. Con won arguments for obvious reasons and provided the only source.