The Instigator
wolf121612
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
EAT_IT_SUKA
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

should September 2 be a holiday

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
EAT_IT_SUKA
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/6/2015 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 572 times Debate No: 73004
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

wolf121612

Pro

60 million lives lost and i wanna see what people would have to say because we all have family that some way helped in the war and these people should be remembered the troops and civilians. this should a holiday in every country from all the allies to all the axis.
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

I accept. I will be arguing that September 2 (end of World War II) should not be a holiday.

What PRO fails to understand is that we already have a holiday in honor of anybody who served in wars and all the civilian casualties --it takes place on November 11 and its called Remembrance Day or Veteran's Day.

Estimates about how many people that have died from war range from 150 000 000-1 000 000 000 people [1]. Let's suppose that only 150 million people died in wars. PRO admits that 60 million people died in World War II, so all of the deaths in every other wars amount to 90 million. Do you see what I'm getting at?


If only 150 million people died in every war ever, making a special holiday for those who served specifically in World War II would be extremely unfair to people who served in other wars, as they aren't getting as much respect and credit for their efforts. Not only that, but 60 million people are getting honored rather than 90 million. Singling out specifically 60 million out of 150 million is unfair to the other soldiers/civilians and ludicrous, especially since it is more probable that a higher number of casualties were a result from wars.

Yes, World War II was a tragedy, but PRO's claim that specifically those who were involved in that specific war rather than every person involved in every war should somehow receive more credit, respect and honor than others who were involved in every other war is ridiculous, not to mention we already honor everybody who served and/or died in wars.

Therefore, vote CON.

Ciatations
[1]-http://www.nytimes.com...


Debate Round No. 1
wolf121612

Pro

Yes I see your point but some countries try to hid some of the things. Germany does not really have grwces for those who fought for Germany during ww2. Everyone should remember this day so we can learn from are mistakes. And another thing is this was the most destructive war in human history. The civilians that lost their lives and the troops deserve this day. If we dont then most countrys will forget there past. Look at greece. Guess what there third biggist political party is. A nazi party. Greece jist might end up like Germany if people dont do something. The war lasted 6 years about. Most of the world participated the war. This war freed the people from nazi and Japanese . So but another point is.millions of germans and jews and every country lost alot of good men
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

Rebuttals
1:'Yes I see your point but some countries try to hid some of the things. Germany does not really have grwces for those who fought for Germany during ww2.'


What are 'grwces?' Until my opponent spells that in at least an understandable matter, I'm afraid I cannot rebut that.

2: 'Everyone should remember this day so we can learn from are mistakes.'

Following that logic, we should make a holiday for every single war, which would be insane, because in the past 3 400 years, humans have been involved in 268 wars [1]. It would be an insane amount of time and work to honor people who served on 268 days of the year, so that's why we invented Remembrance/Veteran's Day, so we could honor all of those who served in one day, including those who served in World War II.


3: 'And another thing is this was the most destructive war in human history.'

While that may be true, all the other wars combined were much worse than World War II. Again, that is why we have Remembrance/Veteran's Day. Of course, that may not be true either. One article explains why the Vietnam War is the worst war, mostly because of a chemical called 'Agent Orange,' that was used during the war, which caused a variety of illnesses including cancer and Parkinson's disease, and was also able to pass down in families to infect affect children [2]. The war itself was also awful as well. Read the entire article, it is truly an eye-opener.

4: 'The civilians that lost their lives and the troops deserve this day.'

Yeah, and so do all the other soldiers and civilians who lost their lives in all the other wars deserve a day. It would be unfair to give one group a day and the other nothing, so we give both a day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

5: 'If we dont then most country's will forget there past. Look at Greece. Guess what there third biggest political party is. A Nazi party. Greece jist might end up like Germany if people dont do something'

PRO, what is your point? I'm sure Greece's Nazi party remembers their past, it is just that there are horrible people out there, because how could they not remember what happened with the real Nazi's? In fact, they once praised members of Nazi Germany before [3], so of course they remember their past and what happened. Again, I don't know what happened to Germany because of your spelling error earlier.


6: 'The war lasted 6 years about.'

Yeah, and the Afghanistan War lasted 11 years [4]. Both wars were tragic. It would be unfair to give one group a day of honor and the other group nothing, so we give both groups an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

7: 'Most of the world participated the war'

Yeah, and most countries participated in World War I as well [5]. Both wars were tragic. It would be unfair to give one group a day of honor and the other group nothing, so we give both groups an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

8: 'This war freed the people from nazi and Japanese'

Yes, and the civil war freed slaves. Both wars were tragic (due to all the casualties, not the freeing). It would be unfair to give one group a day of honor and the other group nothing, so we give both groups an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

9: 'So but another point is.millions of germans and jews and every country lost alot of good men'

Yeah, and World War I ended a lot of good men's lives [6]. Both wars were tragic. It would be unfair to give one group a day of honor and the other group nothing, so we give both groups an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

Conclusion
My point from all of those rebuttals PRO, is that all wars are tragic. You cannot single out the people who lost their lives in one war and neglect all those who lost their lives in all the other wars. It is cruel and unfair. That is why we fairly honor all those who lost their lives on one day and one day only--Remembrance/Veteran's Day. We cannot fairly give a holiday to honor those who were involved in one war and neglect other wars.


Citations
[1]-http://www.nytimes.com...

[2]-https://tristanhbriggs.wordpress.com...
[3]-http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4]-http://en.wikipedia.org...
[5]-http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6]-http://en.wikipedia.org...

Back to PRO.
Debate Round No. 2
wolf121612

Pro

Well again true to Afghanistan war. Butt there are people who survived from the holocaust. And honestly this was the last war when most of the world together. Also I meant graves im typing on a phone don't have a computer. People dont relize that if England and America stsyed out of the war than Nazis would rule Europe and god knows what else. 2 America was attacked. The world was attacked. Different from ww1. People lied too. Millions of innocent people killed. And yes there is stuff.like isis killing Christians. Know your point on Vietnam. That wasnt are war. They didnt attack us like pearl harbor. So people vote pro

Heads up wont reply tomorrow ill be off at track meet and aldo appreciate debateing with you.
Your turn con
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

Rebuttals
1: 'Well again true to Afghanistan war. Butt there are people who survived from the holocaust. And honestly this was the last war when most of the world together.'

...What's your point, PRO?

2: 'Also I meant graves I'm typing on a phone don't have a computer.'

Alright, as for Germany not having graves for those who died in World War II, that claim is unwarranted. I can't take that argument seriously without it being warranted.

3: 'People don't realize that if England and America stayed out of the war than Nazis would rule Europe and god knows what else.'

Drop. That statement is irrelevant.

4: ' America was attacked.'

What makes America more special than other countries getting attacked? America gets attacked all the time, and America was also attacked in the American Revolutionary War, American Indian War, The War of 1812 and the Mexican American War [1]. It would be unfair to give one war group an honor day and the other honor groups nothing, so we give all war groups an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

5: 'The world was attacked.'

Not only is that not true, as not every country was attacked in World War II, following PRO's logic, the world was attacked in World War I as well [2]. It would be unfair to give one war group an honor day and the other war group nothing, so we give both an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

6: 'Different from ww1'

Drop. Just because a war was different than another doesn't make it deserve an honor day any more than the other war.

7: ' People lied too.'

Yeah, and people still don't know which country caused World War I [3], so obviously a country must have not told the truth either.

8: 'Millions of innocent people killed.'

Millions of innocent people were killed in World War I as well [4]. It would be unfair to give one war group an honor day and the other war group nothing, so we give both groups an honor day--Remembrance/Veteran's Day.

9: 'And yes there is stuff.like isis killing Christians.'

I fail to see how that statement is relevant. ISIS is a terrorist group in the middle east, is it not? Could you elaborate on that, PRO?

10: 'Know your point on Vietnam. That wasn't are war.'

By definition, the Vietnam War was a war [5]. Even if it wasn't a war in the eyes of the U.S., by the definition of the word, the Vietnam War was technically war, as there is nothing in the definition about both participants seeing it as a war.

11: 'They didnt attack us like pearl harbor.'

Again, the U.S. gets attacked all the time, and it doesn't necessarily mean more if the Japanese attacks the U.S.A. than another country.

Conclusion
I will take a similar approach with my conclusion as I did last time:

World War II was no more tragic than other wars combined. All wars are tragic. You cannot single out those who were involved in World War II as deserving more honor than the many more people who fought in every other war. That would be unfair. Therefore, we should not have a holiday that honors people who were involved in World War II.

I appreciate debating with PRO as well. This has been a real time-burner. Back to PRO.

Citations
[1]-http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2]-http://www.mapsofworld.com...
[3]-http://www.bbc.com...
[4]-http://en.wikipedia.org...
[5]-http://thevietnamwar.info...



Debate Round No. 3
wolf121612

Pro

well there's another point you have. my point is this was the last world war out of two. its when well the world as at war. the odds of that happening well i don't know because of all the stupid politics. but civilians deaths were so bad. people were caught in a war they didn't want be in. 2 the civilians in japan had the atomic bomb dropped on them. two cities with population of about 300,000 each according to my history book. so has their ever been another war were a atomic bomb or nuke dropped? no their has not. because the cold war was based on it it but the we never nuked each because well plenty of reasons. so those civilians need to be recognized.

well and the Isis thing. i was saying killing Christians like Nazis killed Jews and i thought you bring it up
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

Rebuttals
1: 'well there's another point you have. my point is this was the last world war out of two. its when well the world as at war.'

Why does it matter if World War II was the last major war? The world was at war in World War I as well.

2: 'but civilians deaths were so bad. people were caught in a war they didn't want be in.'

Why is that different from any other war?

3: 'the civilians in japan had the atomic bomb dropped on them. two cities with population of about 300,000 each according to my history book. so has their ever been another war were a atomic bomb or nuke dropped? no their has not. because the cold war was based on it it but the we never nuked each because well plenty of reasons. so those civilians need to be recognized'

I think the important thing here is that civilians died and were injured. That is no different from any other war. Yes, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was horrible. But that doesn't change the fact that all civilian casualties from wars are just as tragic.

Contention 1/P1:
Having an honor day for a group who fought and/or lost their lives in one war is unfair to everybody who fought in every other war, because they deserve credit as well as respect and I already proved that it would be a ridiculous idea to honor every single war on separate days.

P2:
People who fought and/or lost their lives in other single war deserve credit and respect too.

C1:
Therefore, it would be unfair to people who lost their lives and/or fought in every other war if people involved in World War II got an honor day, thus, the end of World War II should not be a holiday.

Contention 2: Remembrance/Veteran's Day
We already honor everybody involved in every war ever--it takes place on November 11 every year and it is called Remembrance/Veteran's Day. Therefore, because World War II was no worse than every other war combined, the end of World War II being a holiday would be unnesecarry.

Contention 3: People will not learn
If we make September 2 a holiday, people will not learn from their mistakes, as CON has claimed earlier. There has been 3 010 wars in history [1](even more than that, actually). Humans have been at war since the beginning of time and making September 2 a holiday will not make humans stop going to war.

Citations:
[1]-http://www.vency.com...
Debate Round No. 4
wolf121612

Pro

well you will never find another war like this. i have m made my point so let the voting win
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

I have to admit, I burst out laughing when I saw PRO's response. This is going to be good:

Rebuttals
1: 'well you will never find another war like this.'

So what? You will never find any other war that is akin to the War of 1812, or the Afghanistan War for that matter. Just because you will never find a war like that doesn't make it any more deserving of honor than any other war. It also doesn't change the fact that many other people died in many other wars.

2: 'i have m made my point so let the voting win'

Are you kidding me? I'm going to put some of my answer in bold because 'I want to make my point:'

'well you will never find another war like this.'

The above text is what PRO said. After I successfully rebutted all of his/her arguments, all (s)he could come up with was 'you will never find another war like this guys. Vote PRO!' You never made your point in this debate. I refuted everything, you refuted nothing.

Conclusion
I successfully refuted all of PRO's arguments, and PRO refuted nothing. In fact, all (s)he said was: 'Alright, you have a point,' to my arguments. Making September 2nd a holiday would be unfair to the many who died in other wars, as they don't get the honor and respect that the people involved in World War II do. We already honor everybody who were involved in wars: the holiday takes place on November 11 and it is called Remembrance/Veteran's Day. People will not learn from their mistakes if September 2nd is a holiday, because humans have been at war for thousands of years and nothing is going to change.

All of my arguments are left uncontested.

For all reasons above, vote CON.

Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by wolf121612 1 year ago
wolf121612
if september 2 should be a holiday
Posted by Ozzyhead 1 year ago
Ozzyhead
What's the debate?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
wolf121612EAT_IT_SUKATied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: con gives MANY MANY reasons that have failed to been addressed by pro, and con uses sources too so that's why he wins.
Vote Placed by leojm 1 year ago
leojm
wolf121612EAT_IT_SUKATied
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Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Con used most reliable sorces which made cons argument seem more realistic and not from opinion. though con had so much information i littetaly lost interest in reading it all. pro you had some good points but a little more research would have been beneficial for you.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 1 year ago
FuzzyCatPotato
wolf121612EAT_IT_SUKATied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed we must celebrate all wars, which'd be impossible