The Instigator
FrankD
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Zanomi3
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

should Standardized tests be eliminated? logical answers

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Zanomi3
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/28/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 937 times Debate No: 62397
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

FrankD

Pro

Standardize testing SHOULD be eliminated. I am a Junior in a NJ high school, I'm not sure about other states, but here we take the HESPA and if you do not pass the HESPA you do not pass high school. Which I think is ridiculous because for someone like me who is smart but is bad at taking tests is not fair. Also because they are changing the HESPA to something a lot harder called the PARKK, which will be really hard to pass. And I think it's ridiculous for someone like me who gets great grades to fail high school all because I am bad at taking tests, or for someone who is bad at memorizing things. Also I don't think one test should decide our fate in society. It's like saying OK I failed the test now I can't be a doctor because I don't know how to graph inequalitys!! Please share your thoughts, logical thoughts
Zanomi3

Con

I accept this debate. In order to give us each equal opportunity (giving each of us four rounds of debating), I will let my opponent make the first statements.
Debate Round No. 1
FrankD

Pro

A plethora of students show signs of intelligence and can get good grades, but they are just not good on tests. So that is basically telling them that can are intelligent enough to use notes and solve problems, but they can't pass high school because there memorization skills are not of good quality.

This is my first debate....sorry if I'm not good or show enough details
Zanomi3

Con

No worries about information; this is my first debate as well.

Back to the discussion of standardized tests. Coming from a state where the HSPA is not given (nor required), I cannot say that I am arguing against the HSPA directly. However, with the knowledge of other standardized testing (even going so far as to include the SAT and ACT), I will argue that these tests do offer a measurement of ability. Of course, one cannot define oneself off of one score, but these tests are not designed for students to fail. Often times, even with those that have difficulty testing, many are able to achieve passing grades, or the comparative college-readiness levels. Concerning the HSPA testing, with scores ranging from 100 to 300, and a passing grade of 200, there is a high chance that many students will be able to achieve a passing level. Whether these individuals acquire a grade they are pleased with is a separate question, but when looking at the number of individuals able to pass, these numbers should be higher. Yes, I will acknowledge that testing does not come easily to all individuals, and that even the smartest of people will not test to the same ability that they show in the classroom. Yet these students should be able to test well enough to hit a passing mark.

Please correct me if I am wrong or ill-informed about the HSPA test; we are not administered this test in Illinois.
Debate Round No. 2
FrankD

Pro

Yes, other standardized testing such as SAT and other forms are not so bad, they don't determine weather or not you pass from high school or not. I agree they do somewhat test you abilities but i think they should weigh so heavily on you, you could be having a bad day when the test is administered or you could be sick. But back to the HSPA we take the HSPA usually Jr. year but they are changing it to the PARK and if we do not pass we cannot graduate high school until we pass the test. Most people will pass but even my teacher this year said the PARK is so hard she doesn't think many will pass, which is ridiculous to administer such a hard test.
Zanomi3

Con

Your statements are completely valid, and I agree that there are days where one simply does not test up to their ability. However, the rules for the HSPA (and I believe the PARCC) allow for retakes. Yes, there may be a day where the scores do a terrible job reflecting the academic success of a student, but one should be able to take a second, and possibly third, attempt at the test to raise their scores and become eligible for graduation. For example, while not arguing the ACT, the thought process can be transferred over seamlessly. If one scores poorly on the ACT one day, they are able to retest in order to show their true academic level. Why would this not be the same for the HSPA, especially with two additional test dates given throughout one's senior year in school? Furthermore, the HSPA only requires a student to retake the sections that have not been passed, allowing said student to focus in on sections that did not go as planned. Also, concerning the PARCC test, these claims are simply claims. Until we are positive about the passing rates and success rates of the test, we should not make assumptions about the difficulties of this standardized test.

Sources: http://www.state.nj.us...
Debate Round No. 3
FrankD

Pro

I agree with you on some level, but colleges will see how many times someone has failed the HSPA or PARCC. So if one re-takes the test 3 or 4 times and finally passes this may reflect badly on their records, and lower chances of getting into a good school, which then holds them back from getting where they want to go in life because of one test.
Zanomi3

Con

Once again, extremely valid arguments. However, I would believe that things would run similar to the ACT and SAT. When applying to colleges, most (if not all) look only at the highest score achieved over all test dates. This being the case, they would only look at the highest score on each section, which would be passing, even if it took several test dates. Also, the HSPA is used to "measure whether [the students] have gained the knowledge and skills identified in the Core Curriculum Content Standards." These scores and results are also used "to determine the appropriateness and strength of the local curriculum and to develop remedial programs to help students improve their knowledge and skills." With this knowledge, these tests are truly administered for the benefit of the students, not for acceptance decisions of colleges.

Furthermore, these tests do in fact reflect situations in a post-collegiate setting. In many professions, especially those that require a higher education, there are periods of time that come with time restraints and in turn plenty of stress. One must learn to adapt to these stresses, and while a single test may not be entirely reflective of this, it does provide a certain aspect of urgency and demonstrates one's ability to perform under pressure.

Sources: Same as previous round
Debate Round No. 4
FrankD

Pro

FrankD forfeited this round.
Zanomi3

Con

Arguments Extended.

Glad we were able to have this debate!
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Atmas 2 years ago
Atmas
Standardization is inherently flawed because it assumes averages exist. There's a story about the Air Force hiring some engineers to build jet fighter cockpits for the "average" pilot so it wouldn't be complicated. The result was that none of the pilots were happy with the cockpits. They didn't make room for taller, wider, heavier, and lighter pilots and you definitely don't want uncomfortable fighter pilots. They had to build adjustable seats to compensate for the various pilot sizes. The same applies for school testing, there is no such thing as an average student. Each child learns, thinks, and operates differently than their peers and a standardized test would only be suited toward a tiny portion of the children. The rest of the kids will be struggling because the test doesn't cater to their way of learning. Of course, you can't just keep making exceptions for every child because there would be hundreds or thousands of different tests in just one school and that isn't feasible on a proper grading scale. Everyone is to blame, parents for not being more actively involved, teachers for caring only about the grade average and not helping each child the way they need, and the children for not adapting ways of overcoming the difference in learning styles. I'm terrible with numbers and had to struggle with math, but I'm excellent at language arts, so instead of sweating everytime I saw numbers, I just turned each problem into a word problem. I had to figure this out myself, and it was abit too late (I had to get my GED). I wish my teachers would have cared enough to figure that out, maybe I wouldn't have felt the need to quit high school.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Don't remember taking any standardized tests except SAT tests. Those were college entrance exams.Our grades determined who passed. Of course that was 48 years ago.I understand why they test. now. Kids are being passed that should not be. Mainly to give the school a better grade for funding.And to cover up the bad teachers that cannot be fired because of the union.We keep throeing more money at the problem, and it kept getting worse.You have to blame the teachers union for your problems.At least you should.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by browley14 2 years ago
browley14
FrankDZanomi3Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I do however believe that the tests need to change with the times and should be testing real-life situations and not what the state/administrator of the test, thinks you should know.
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 2 years ago
FaustianJustice
FrankDZanomi3Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Fuller explanation of points and Pro ffed a round.