The Instigator
Mr.VicePresident
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
ComradVlad
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

should college sport players have to pass the same criteria as the rest of us?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
ComradVlad
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/8/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,963 times Debate No: 19182
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (5)

 

Mr.VicePresident

Pro

They should have the education as "normal" people to play sports in college.
ComradVlad

Con

Hello again :) and good luck.

Once again I assume first round is acceptance and I accept.

Lets establish a few things.

"normal" people - Refers to people who are not college athletes.
"Same criteria" - Same academic criteria such as grades, college essays, volunteer hours, etc.
"Should", and this is important - Should as defined in a legal sense NOT in a moral sense.

If you disagree with any of my interpretations please correct them in the following round.
Debate Round No. 1
Mr.VicePresident

Pro

I accept the criteria.I believe this would be beneficiary to not just the players,but also society. If not make the criteria that of non-athletic scholars than at least at a standard nationwide. To make
ComradVlad

Con

Let me begin by reiterating that we agreed that the debate is whether student athletes should be held to the same academic standards as regular students in a legal sense not a moral sense. This means that any argument involving "its the right thing to do" or any emotional basis is now moot. In fact anything else than a legal argument is invalid.

First let me respond to your first argument by asking you to give examples of how "this" would be beneficial to society?

Second let me state my first set of arguments.

-Point 1
A number of universities (like Yale and Harvard) are private institutions. As private institutions they have the right to set any policies, academic and otherwise, because it is protected by the first amendment. Point in case: Boy scouts of America v. Dale. It was decided that as a private organization they can choose not to allow gays in their institution. Once again I'd like to state that even if private universities had a moral obligation to have the same standards for all students, they don't have a legal obligation to do so.
*source: http://scholar.google.com...

-Point 2
In the case of state run universities the private institution argument cannot be applied. However the colleges still have a legal right to dictate different academic standards for different students. For example a nutrition major cannot be expected to receive high marks in classes that a physics major might take, and visa versa. Nothing prevents student athletes from holding themselves to high academic standards, that decision is personal. But in all honesty the vast majority of student athletes got into their respective colleges based on sports scholarships in the first place. They focus on sports rather education because that's what they're good at. Holding student athletes to the same academic standards as regular students is as unfair as holding regular students to the athletic standards required of student athletes.
Debate Round No. 2
Mr.VicePresident

Pro

Yes, I agree that private university's who are self supported should not have a set standard. Public University's on the other hand should have a set standard for entry for both sets of students and athletes. This would only be fair for the students and the other schools who actualy care about their students. College is still school if you wish to have a free ride go play in the pro's.
ComradVlad

Con

Since you didn't specify that we were debating public colleges specifically, I interpreted the initial question as all colleges. In this case I believe I already won as you have just yourself stated that private colleges do indeed have the right to set different standards.

However I will still continue my argument on the subject of public universities. Because this is the last round I can't ask you to clarify or expand on your statements, so regrettably I can only point out their flaws.

-Public University's on the other hand should have a set standard for entry for both sets of students and athletes. This would only be fair for the students and the other schools who actually care about their students.

*point 1
You never say why it would be fair. You make a generalized statement and do not follow up with evidence, sources or reasoning.

*point 2
It is absolutely fair to have different standards for different students. There is already a multitude of different standards for different students aside from the distinction of student athletes and regular students. As I stated in round 2 a person who is a physics major must take different classes and is held to a different standard that a nutrition major, student athlete or not.

-College is still school if you wish to have a free ride go play in the pro's.

*point 1
Yes, college is a school. Some people go to learn astronomy, others computer science, yet other go to learn how to master their field of sports.

*point 2
Yes, it is a free ride. But there is also free rides for minorities, low income kids, etc. What makes people who get free rides based on their ethnicity more eligible than people who get free rides based on their hard work?

*point 3
These "free rides" allow popular athletics departments (like football for example) to generate an income, This in turn helps the school and as a result everyone, including the non student athletes.

Lastly I submit to you my final case. I contest that separate standards are not only fair, but actually more fair than uniform standards for all students. You would not expect a person who enjoys writing and excels in it, to become a math major and excel at that. Just as you wouldn't expect the math major to be an amazing football player. You wont hold and English major to the standards of a math major and you wouldn't hold a math major to the standards of an athletes. Just as you wouldn't hold the athlete to the standards of the English major or any variation thereof. These people are in college for different reasons and on different merits. Having different standards fits in perfectly well.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by ComradVlad 5 years ago
ComradVlad
Bozo can you please stop trolling... He never mentioned any of the things you said. Its obvious that you aren't taking this seriously.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Kethen 5 years ago
Kethen
Mr.VicePresidentComradVladTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't even put up an arguement really.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
Mr.VicePresidentComradVladTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Wish the debate couldve been longer since the real debating didnt start until halfway through the second round. Still Con showed how in some cases it is actually lawful for athletes to not have to meet the same criteria as us. By then though that was the last round and pro couldnt have offered a counter argument.
Vote Placed by bluesteel 5 years ago
bluesteel
Mr.VicePresidentComradVladTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: pro barely argued anything - Con had coherent points and clearly wins private colleges. All 7 points - countering bozo's votebomb
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
Mr.VicePresidentComradVladTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I am countering Bozo's vote. The debate is about college sports players, and therefore his comments about their behavior like "pre-madonnas" is irrelevant..
Vote Placed by bozotheclown 5 years ago
bozotheclown
Mr.VicePresidentComradVladTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: He had a great argument saying that they act like pre-madonna's and do not deserve special treatment because they dont even contribute to society.