The Instigator
michael1010
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Chaos88
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

should doctors be forced to perform abortion

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/2/2012 Category: Health
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,426 times Debate No: 25951
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

michael1010

Pro

This debate is to in regards to should doctors be forced to perform abortions.
This is not to dispute if abortions should be legal or are moral there are other debates for that.
My statement is regardless of a doctor's personal beliefs they should have to perform the medical procedure if it is legal, and not endangering the patient.
This is my first debate so I will apologize in advance for any procedural errors and appreciate the experience.
Chaos88

Con

Welcome to DDO, and good luck in the debate.

Procedurely speaking, you are doing fine. Kudos on your explicit "this debate is not on morality", as that could detract the debate from your intention. The only thing I would suggest is your resolution should be a statement, not a question. Not a big deal, but it should have read "Doctors should be forced...". Trust me, I've seen worse.

For future reference, it is good form to always take the Pro when instigating, as you did here. Had you wanted Con, the resolution should have read "Doctors should not be forced", and you take Pro. It is simple and it avoids confusion.

Now, since you did not define any terms, as I think they all are pretty self-evident, I am going to assume that we are talking about the United States government forcing doctors within the United States to perform abortions, and not all doctors everywhere.

Back to you...
Debate Round No. 1
michael1010

Pro

I would like to start by thanking my competitor for accepting this debate and the help.
With procedure yes I am referring to doctors in USA

There are 3 main points I would like to make

1 it is not the doctor's responsibility to determine the actual surgery in most matters they need to give options but final choice is made by the patient. This has legal precedence.

Benjamin Cardozo (who would later become a Supreme Court justice) ruled in a New York case that "[e]very human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body."

2. A patients morals and or beliefs out weigh a doctor's. This has been established before listed a couple examples where a patients choice out way a doctor's decision.

a dnr "do not resuscitate"

A patient may refuse a blood transfusion

3 A doctor's primary responsibility is to there patient not another life.

For an example if I am dead but my decision is not to allow my organs to be harvested it is my doctor's responsibility to respect my wishes even though my donated organs could save one or more lives.

Due too these 3 reasons a doctor should have to respect a woman's right to chose termination of a pregnancy and perform the operation regardless of his or her personal views.

Links http://m.wisegeek.com... http://mytransfusion.com.au... http://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Chaos88

Con

First, advice. I would recommend citing your references in the text, so I know what source is backing what claim, and what claims have no source. When I use sources, I number them [1], and list them at the end. Others will post the link in the text of the argument at the end of the paragraph or point. Also, watch your spelling and grammar, as it is judged as well.

In case you don’t know, debates are judged by fellow DDO members on four criteria (7 points):

who had better conduct (1 pt),

who had better spelling and grammar (1 pt),

who had more reliable sources (2 pts), and

who made better arguments (3 pts).

These criteria are voted independently of each other, and can and do often end in ties (especially spelling and source points), in which event, no points are awarded for that criterion.

Now, back to the debate.


1 it is not the doctor's responsibility to determine the actual surgery in most matters they need to give options but final choice is made by the patient. This has legal precedence.

Benjamin Cardozo (who would later become a Supreme Court justice) ruled in a New York case that "[e]very human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body."

True. While there is precedent that the patient’s decision may veto a doctor’s, there is no precedent that a doctor must perform a service. “Pulling the plug” is not a service ,it is lack of one.

2. A patients morals and or beliefs out weigh a doctor's. This has been established before listed a couple examples where a patients choice out way a doctor's decision.

a dnr "do not resuscitate"

A patient may refuse a blood transfusion

Again, a patient may decide their course of action, but you cannot force a doctor to act.


3 A doctor's primary responsibility is to there patient not another life.
True, doctors will honor their patients’ decisions. However, it does not mean doctors are duty bound to act on their request. For example, if a cancer patient refuses chemotherapy and opts for a homeopathic option, is the doctor required to give messages or locate these herbs?

Due too these 3 reasons a doctor should have to respect a woman's right to chose termination of a pregnancy and perform the operation regardless of his or her personal views.

You make a compelling argument as to why doctors should respect their patients’ wishes. However, none of these come close to demanding a doctor perform a procedure that a doctor may consider risky, unnecessary, and uncomfortable.

My arguments are simple.

1. No one has the right to compel anyone to provide a service.

We do not force acupuncturists to practice Western medicine. We do not force plastic surgeons to operate on the same individual seven times in one year, whether the client demands it or not. And we certainly should not force a Catholic hospital to perform an abortion, as it is against their religion.

If something is unethical to a doctor, they should not perform. Otherwise, any doctor should be required to perform any legal procedure. It is often said that people who have plastic surgery numerous times have psychological issues, and after a certain number of procedures (varies by doctor), a psychological consult is required before the doctor will operate again [1].

2. The Hippocratic Oath forbids this arbitrary compulsion [2].

The oath taken by doctors is to use their judgment, do no harm, and not to cause an abortion (“not give to a woman an abortive remedy”). Regardless, ethics may differ between doctors, but any doctor who has scruples and takes pause with any procedure, should not be compelled to perform said procedure.

I can conceive of no argument as to why a doctor should be forced to act against their will, their word, and their ethics; none has been provided. Vote Con.

  1. http://emedicine.medscape.com...
  2. http://www.pbs.org...
Debate Round No. 2
michael1010

Pro

I would like to thank my competitor for their response and apologize for my delay in my response.

I feel like I have made my point stating a patients morals and beliefs have to be honored by their physicians. This point mainly was shown by preventing a doctor from doing an action instead of performing an operation.

In your respond to your statement No one had the right to compel anyone to provide a service. This is true to a point we should not force anyone to become a doctor,but once the choice has been made too become a doctor their responsibility should be too the patient and not their belief.

Doctors are currently compelled to treat their patients regardless of their beliefs.

Both the ethical opinions and legal precedents agree that a physician may not intentionally and unilaterally sever an existing relationship with any patient, unless the physician provides reasonable notice to the patient, in writing, and sufficient time to locate another physician. Failure of the physician to continue to provide care when the patient remains in need of care or failure to provide notice and an adequate opportunity physician before the physician terminates the physician/patient relationship can be construed as the physician"s abandonment of the patient or dereliction of the physician"s duty if injury results. In addition to being exposed to liability for any damages that are caused by the abandonment or the breach of duty, the disciplinary action under the states medical practice act. In Pennsylvania, a physicians abandonment of a patient can result in disciplinary action exposure to civil liability (1)

2. The Hippocratic Oath. I reviewed your source that you provided and I would recommend you review this again. The source that you quoted is out of date and no longer used. The article you quoted specifically states the Hippocratic oath that Med students now take do not include any statement forbidding abortions. (2)

1: http://www.physiciansnews.com...
2: http://www.pbs.org...

Thank you
Chaos88

Con

I would like to thank my competitor for their response and apologize for my delay in my response.

No problems; I tend to procrastinate.

I feel like I have made my point stating a patients morals and beliefs have to be honored by their physicians.

Within reason, yes. A patient may believe they need what would be considered a lethal dose of a medication, it doesn’t mean the doctor should give it to them.

This point mainly was shown by preventing a doctor from doing an action instead of performing an operation.

I don’t understand what you are saying. Performing an operation is doing an action.


In your respond to your statement No one had the right to compel anyone to provide a service. This is true to a point we should not force anyone to become a doctor,but once the choice has been made too become a doctor their responsibility should be too the patient and not their belief.

So, should chiropractor be forced to perform acupuncture? A natural remedy should be given instead of antibiotics? An unnecessary surgery, like abortion or plastic surgery, should be mandated to be performed, even if the doctor is reluctant to perform, regardless of the reason? One reason for this stage freight may be ethical/moral dilemma; however, another may be simply keeping a reputation, like a surgeon’s success rate high. For example, they will refuse to give a herion addict a new liver (ethics), or a doctor may think it too soon to operate safely again.

If I have cancer and demand chemotherapy EVERY DAY, the doctor must give it to me, right?

Doctors are currently compelled to treat their patients regardless of their beliefs.

False; doctors are to treat their patients to the best of their abilities using their judgment.

Take the following example:

A woman and man walk into the doctor’s office; she wants an abortion. While stating this, she sighs, and speaks nervously and reluctantly. She has a black eye, bruises on her arm, and keeps looking at the man before she answers any question. The doctor believes the woman does not want an abortion, but the abusive boyfriend does. Should he act against what he believes is in the best interest of his patient? He can make a referral, but this doctor should not be forced to perform an elective operation that he believes the patient does not truly want.

Both the ethical opinions and legal precedents agree that a physician may not intentionally and unilaterally sever an existing relationship with any patient, unless the physician provides reasonable notice to the patient, in writing, and sufficient time to locate another physician.

Since abortion is common and not life threatening, refusal to perform one does not violate this rule. Furthermore, refusing (or inability) to perform any one service is not “unilaterally sever[ing]” an existing relationship, as the doctor will still perform other medical services. Otherwise, an OB-GYN should be expected to perform open-heart surgery and/or diagnose a skin disease.

Failure of the physician to continue to provide care when the patient remains in need of care or failure to provide notice and an adequate opportunity physician before the physician terminates the physician/patient relationship can be construed as the physician"s abandonment of the patient or dereliction of the physician"s duty if injury results. In addition to being exposed to liability for any damages that are caused by the abandonment or the breach of duty, the disciplinary action under the states medical practice act. In Pennsylvania, a physicians abandonment of a patient can result in disciplinary action exposure to civil liability (1)

Again, the patient is not in NEED of care, as abortion is an elective operation.



2. The Hippocratic Oath. I reviewed your source that you provided and I would recommend you review this again. The source that you quoted is out of date and no longer used. The article you quoted specifically states the Hippocratic oath that Med students now take do not include any statement forbidding abortions. (2)

Fair enough, but it still states they must rely on judgment, and they are not to overtreat a patient. This implies that they can refuse a service based on their judgment, so why is abortion, an elective operation, immune to such criticism? Should a doctor perform an abortion, if they believe the patient is not able to cope with the consequences?

-

Pro has made a case to force a doctor to perform an abortion to save the patient’s life, but that is not the debate; there has not been a compelling argument to compel a doctor to perform an elective operation. Pro has made a case to honor the patient's wishes, but this, too, is not the debate. The debate is whether a doctor MUST perform a specific surgery. The fact that a patient requests it is not enough to demand action. Abortion is not life-threatening, and patients do not have carte blanche over what the doctor does (e.g. cannot demand a specific medication in a specified dosage).

Abortion, in necessity, is no different than a boob job. If a doctor feels uneasy, regardless of the reason, he should not be compelled to operate in either circumstance.

Please vote Con.

Debate Round No. 3
michael1010

Pro

michael1010 forfeited this round.
Chaos88

Con

Chaos88 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
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