The Instigator
iamfromdebatewars
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Overhead
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

should nothern ireland be freed from UK

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/19/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 260 times Debate No: 89881
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

iamfromdebatewars

Pro

This is the right of people living in nothern ireland to unite with their true nation of Ireland.
Overhead

Con

Thank you to PRO for making the topic.

PRO makes the claim that it "is the right of people living in nothern ireland to unite with their true nation of Ireland". This is parently false. No such right exists in international law or common morality.

What DOES exist is the right to self determination[1] which is "the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order".

This means that PRO's clam could be considered correct IF it's what the people of Northern ireland want, but would be considered false if it's not what they want. That is the important distinction that PRO misses.

So the question is, what do the people of Northern Ireland want?

They overwhelmingly want to stay seperate and not have a United Ireland. This is shown both in modern day polls[2] which find the Northern irish public gives "a firm 'no' to united Ireland" and in the only referendum undetaken on the issue where the electorate overwhemlingly deceided for Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK[3].

I would just point out - pre-empting a possible rebuttal - that although the third source states the no campaign did boycott the referendum, based on the results we can see this objection wouldn't matter and that the Northern Irish people clearly supported UK union. Even if every single person who didn't vote had voted and we assume they all vote for United Ireland (which are assumptions which massively and insanely favour the United Ireland side as much as is possible) it STILL wouldn't have been enough.

The UK Union vote was 585357 votes ahead of the United ireland vote and all the votes of the electorate that were not made (due to boycott or other circumstances) only add up to 438264.

As the future of Northern Ireland should be deceided based on the recognised unversal human right of self-determination and there is an overwhelming majority in favour of continued union with the UK, Northern Ireland should remain a part of the UK.

[1] https://goo.gl...;
[2] http://goo.gl...
[3] https://goo.gl...
Debate Round No. 1
iamfromdebatewars

Pro

Nothern ireland rightfully belongs to ireland. When ireland was given independence by UK, the english govt. Kept nothern ireland with themselves. Even if majority of the people dont want to leave UK, still i believe that prence of irish people in N.I. who want unification makes this an ulitimate step. Nothern Ireland must unite with ireland.
Overhead

Con

Pro states "Nothern ireland rightfully belongs to ireland" but does not put together a framework to explain why.

Why does the "prence of irish people in N.I. who want unification" make ending the union with the Uk and forming a new country with EIRE the "ultimate step"? This is never explained. Why doesn't the much greater presence of Irish people in N/I who want union with the UK make a commitment to maintaining the status quo the "ultimate step".

Also your language where you talk of England deceiding to keep Northern Ireland and Northern ireland needing to be freed is completely uncalled for. Ireland is a democratic constituent country of the United Kingdom with an elected assembly to pass laws. If the people of Northern Ireland had a substantial near majority wish for independence they would get a referendum as Scotland did a few years ago - but they don't. They want to stay part of the union as shown in my sources in round one.

When EIRE got independence, NI stayed as part of the union because "Northern Ireland, whose Ulster Protestant majority saw themselves as Britons and feared that a Dublin parliament would tax the North and damage its industries, exercised its option to remain in the United Kingdom."[1] So once again, it was based on them exercising their unalienable democratic rights to self-determination.

Apart from unsupported statements, what rationale do you have for denying the people of Northern Ireland one of their fundamental human rights?

[1] https://goo.gl...;
Debate Round No. 2
iamfromdebatewars

Pro

iamfromdebatewars forfeited this round.
Overhead

Con

PRO FF, extending argument.
Debate Round No. 3
iamfromdebatewars

Pro

iamfromdebatewars forfeited this round.
Overhead

Con

PRO FF, extending argument.
Debate Round No. 4
iamfromdebatewars

Pro

Overhead you are really a good debater. I am no match with you. I give up. You have made brilliant arguments.
Overhead

Con

Awww shucks, thanks for the compliment.

*Blushes and holds hankerchief in front of face like 19th century southern belle*
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
Slightly too late. Given the concession, this really should not have been a tie.
No votes have been placed for this debate.