The Instigator
mohamed-majid
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ThesnamisSorreall
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points

should we follow the Bible

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ThesnamisSorreall
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/21/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 945 times Debate No: 91637
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (55)
Votes (1)

 

mohamed-majid

Con

Peace be on you guys, hello, I am a muslim and i read the Quran and the Bible,
and i find that a lot of verses are similar and both books order people to worship allmighty GOD and follow the teaching of prophets .
but in the Bible there are a lot of clear fabrications of men, even the christian scholars admit that .
and through time many verses were removed from the bible by the christians scholars as fabrication and not true saith of GOD .
while the Quran remains the same for more than 1400 year.
the true Bible of JESUS -peace be upon him- is not the same bible of today , and that why we should not follow it.
ThesnamisSorreall

Pro

Hello! I've never actually debated on Muslim on this! So I'm super excited about this debate! I look forward to a productive discussion, I'm sure!!!

Just for clarification, when you say the "Bible of Jesus", what exactly are you referring to?

Secondly, it is vital to note that we have no evidence that the texts that make up the Bible are significantly different from the originals.

The oldest manuscripts of the texts that make up the Bible (for instance, the Dead Sea scrolls) bear no significant difference from the modern Bible.
If the oldest manuscripts of the texts that make up the Bible bear no significant difference from the modern Bible,
And the oldest manuscripts of the texts are the closest we have to the original manuscripts,
Then it is most reasonable to conclude that the modern Bible bears no significant difference from the original manuscripts of the texts that make up the Bible.

If the oldest manuscripts that we have bear no significant difference to the manuscripts we have today, (which is often a span of about 2,000 years,) what led you to conclude that the Bible today is different than the originals? Similarly, what led you to believe that certain verses were fabricated, and which specific verses are we referring to?

Additionally, we know that the Bible is definitely from God. It records numerous prophecies, or more often decrees about the future, that came to pass; such as Ezekiel 26 which predicts the fall of Tyre in explicate detail, Jeremiah 23: 8 which predicts that the Jews will be gathered from the "land of the north" and reform the nation of Israel, the explicate prophecies about Jesus (Isaiah being one book to look at), Isaiah 44:28 which predicts that a king named Cyrus will rebuild Jerusalem, to name only a few prophecies that were fulfilled.
I can get into why this is significant latter, but just as a preliminary argument, what evidence does the Quran provide to demonstrate that it is from God?

Let's start there. I'm excited to hear your opinion on this matter!
Debate Round No. 1
mohamed-majid

Con

mohamed-majid forfeited this round.
ThesnamisSorreall

Pro

Since you were too busy to post this round, I'll just let my previous argument stand so you can challenge it when you have time.
Debate Round No. 2
mohamed-majid

Con

mohamed-majid forfeited this round.
ThesnamisSorreall

Pro

This is my closing argument
Debate Round No. 3
55 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
My grammar was bad again, sorry.
God could reveal Himself to people without a holy book.
In the story of Horus, Horus' mother, Isis, creates oragans and has intercourse with them to make Horace. Thus, she is not a virgin. This is VERY different from record of Jesus!
In the same way that there are differences between the Quran and the Bible, there are differences between the story of Horus and the Bible.
The Sana a manuscript I found online, but it is also in the Sana a museum in Yemen, if you live in Yemen.
I do not see how the taboo argument works, unless the Quran is from God. I do not think it is from God,.so the argument does not work with me unless it can be demonstrated that the Quran is from God.
That didn't count. That was to clarify some if my grammar. I must be done well. I wish you well and enjoyedthis ddiscussion! You sre the only Muslim I have argued about Islam wiith, who stood their ground. So well done!! I respect that! Most refuse to argue! I hope your fair and honest pursuit of truth proves very fruitfull,
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
Okay, I need to go now. Goodbye!
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
Oh, I didn't see your first comment! Okay, this is seriously my last reply. I cannot reply further. If I do reply, please yell at me!
Frankly, im not sure that the human choice thing is relevant. God is alk powerfull,.correct? Thus,.He has power over whether people choose Him or not. If He.does not have power over this, He is not all powerfull.But anyway, even if it was, God could make a way for people to.fund Him besideds a holy.book. Why should there be a divine book? It doesnt nake sense to me that it has to be a book, WHY does there have to be su h a book? Canot.God.reveal Himself to peoe without a book?
Actually, I meant to say if the Egyptian god Horus is as similar as you say, I might suspect that it was a prophecy. As is, I would still like.ti know what made you think the story if Horus is what you said, because it is different from mine. In the story I am more familiar with, Horus is allegedly the aon of the godess Isis. In irder to nake Horus, Isis created certain iragans to have intercourse with, and from this prodiced Horus. If ahe had intercourse, she is not a virgin. Are you familiar with a different version, and if so, where did you get it?
Yes, there are many differences between the Quran and Bible, in the same way there are differences between the story of Horus and the Gospels. In Horace, Horace is bit a human, to my knowledge. Jesus is. For one. The sane coukd be said. I just dont think drawing comparisons works, such cimparisons woukd also apply to the Quran.
That particular manuscript I refer to is the Sana`a manuscript, ine if the okdest Qurans in the world. The text is accessible online or, if you read Arabic, is at the Sana a museum in Yemen I think.
So, I do not.consider the Quran as.correct.. So if Jesus breaks rukes that are rukes in the Quran, I do not see this as a problem. So im not sure how the taboo argument works.
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
Ugh! I really need to leave, but I will answer this one question. If God is not material or temporal, how does that prevent God fron having human traits? Ir does not. Just because God created time and space does not mean that He cannot feel emotion like us, or share othwr attributes. I really must leave though. If those two statements are connected and I just missed the logic I might have to come back though to be fair.
Are arguments posts are beginning to
Posted by lightseeker 9 months ago
lightseeker
and since god created time and space, how can he be temporal and material and show human traits?
Posted by lightseeker 9 months ago
lightseeker
come one man, we were getting somewhere. dont leave T_T
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
But on that note, sadly, I will have to leave. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you, I feel the conversation was productive. I find your pperspective fascinating! I wish you well!
Posted by lightseeker 9 months ago
lightseeker
"God is all powerful and can lead people yo believe in Him without any book"
my friend, it's not a matter of power of god, its the matter of choice of humans. humans are created to be creatures of choice. look at the world friend, so many atheists, so many people who don't care about religion, even Americans who are supposed to be Christians are drinking and having Pre-Marriage sex and killing each other. if i am a creature of choice, i believe there should be a divine book that can lead me to him. its only logical.

and about Horus, i also mean the Egyptian god of sun. you say God gave the Egyptian s a prophecy about Jesus. but there is no prove of this, just speculation. and Horus was worshiped as god in Egypt.
what I'm trying to say is that how can you prove that Jesus was not a made up man from the image of Horus? after all Egyptian story is far older.
you said "Quran is copying the Bible". well in Quran we don't believe Jesus is son of god or other things i said about Prophets or that story about Adam and eve.
you said: and about presenting an evidence about Horus and Jesus, i say we have both of the stories, and we can look at them. you mean you deny the things i said about story of Horus the god of sun?

and about different Arabic versions of Quran, tell me where did you see this? and how can i check it out? you say It is hard for me to imagine the same Arbabic word could translate THAT derastically differently, so you haven't read it right? just point me at the right direction please

Jesus LOVED breaking taboos. when i see that in the previous books of god, those things are taboo and in the bible they are not, well i logically understand that there is inconsistency. and since you say that bible was not written by Jesus but by others, how can the word of fallible people be taken as a guideline? how can i not know that someone who just loved to drink and eat pork, changed the true bible to allow this?
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
As a side note, gumans are made in the image of God. So it makes sense that God has "human" attributes
Posted by ThesnamisSorreall 9 months ago
ThesnamisSorreall
Which 100 versions are you referencing? I am not sure I understand you Hebreq argument. Hebrew was not the dominant language at the time the gospels were wrotten, and the Bibke has been passed down to us I believe in greek. (Except the old testrment.) Oh, I agree that these okd manuscripts are different in their wording and vowels, certainly! But I do not claim there is ONE version of the Bible and that it cannot be changed! I am simply arguing that there is no evidence othat the moder. Bibke is significantly different from the original (and thus sgoukdr not be followrd. That was the original arguembt.) Whike there are minor differences, and thus different "versions" of the Bibke, these versions are only miborky different and di not effect anything. But I am not arguing that there is NO sifference, I am arguing that there is no significant difference that woukd effect whwther we should obey the modern Bible.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
mohamed-majidThesnamisSorreallTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.