The Instigator
shipman37
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ore_Ele
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

should we over through the government?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/4/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,298 times Debate No: 18625
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (5)

 

shipman37

Pro

We SHOULD without a doubt over throw our government... I'm not the only one who thinks so... just read the declaration of independence.
But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security- declaration of independence (not only our right! but our DUTY.

as well as Abraham Lincoln!
Our safety and our liberty depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who would pervert the Constitution.” ~ President Abraham Lincoln

President Lincoln clearly understood the purpose and meaning of our Constitution. Our constitution is the very underpinnings of our culture, way of life and the embodiment of our unalienable rights to Life, liberty and the pursuit of Property and Happiness.

Lincoln, as did the Framers of the constitution, both foresaw and warned against the potential dangers and time, when people lost sight of their basic unalienable rights and the power they hold over government, when government could overreach and exceed its designed purpose and authority under the constitution. Not only did they predict this potential danger but provided a solution and steps, in which to follow, for reigning in the power of government; including the outright abolishment of government and/or the Constitution by the people by revolution. The latter, although an action of last resort, is self-evident in the Declaration Of Independence. After all, it is the Peoples country NOT governments.

It's absolutely astonishing as to the amount of wisdom and foresight our founders possessed and clearly laid out for us, all within fewer than thirty-two pages, a simple body of laws and individual rights called the Constitution of the United States of America. Abraham Lincoln, also recognized their greatness and fully understood the meaning of revolt or revolution within the confines of the Constitution. He made this abundantly clear when he stated in his above quote. "The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who would pervert the Constitution.” We challenge you to name just one modern day president since Lincoln who so eloquently reinforced and defended the basic meaning and rights of the people under our constitution.

Over the past seventy years, from Franklin D Roosevelt to Jimmy Carter and now Obama, our presidents, elected officials and courts have continually distorted and eroded the basic freedoms and unalienable rights of the people by completely ignoring the Constitution, in furthering their personal political agendas. Interestingly enough, everyone of the democratic presidents had a personal agenda to pass some sort of Heath care reform or entitlement program for furthering socialist / Fascist principles which eroded our liberties, violated the Constitution and granted government greater control and power over the people.

This is most evident and glaringly obvious in the most recent ramrod-ding through Congress of a Constitutionally illegal Health Care reform bill over a majority objection of the people. It didn't matter to the lawmakers what was in the bill didn't meet or satisfy the wishes and concerns of their constituents, or that it may bankrupt the country and, in doing so, jeopardize our safety and national security nor did they bother to check the objections being raised as to the bills constitutionality. Instead our leaders of the House, Senate and our President, conspired behind closed doors, to bribe fellow lawmakers in order to garner necessary votes as they manoeuvred to find a method on which to pass a bill, Americans did NOT want, on less than a 2/3 majority. All that mattered was passing a bill that would give the President and fellow party member a victory and chance of re-election. Now that's blatant abuse and perversion of our Constitution and RIGHTS!

Yes, it was primarily the Democrats who perverted the Constitution but this practice is not exclusive to Democrats. Republicans are equally responsible either bills of their own or those of Democrats which they supported. Socialist Entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare subsidies and other similar handout programs are nothing more the Ponzi schemes run buy the government and which are illegal.

Time has come to put an end to this form of irresponsible government we created. Time to return to basic fundamental principles. Time to stop the corruption. Time to reform the political and legislative process. Time to impose Term Limits. Time to enforce Balanced Budgets and spending on government. Time to abolish the IRS tax code for a single Flat or Fair Tax putting more money back in the hands of Families & business. Time has come to "Overthrow all the men we elected who would and have perverted the Constitution". THE TIME IS NOW! Our and that of our Children's freedoms and future are at stake.

Ore_Ele

Con

Apart for the fact that this entire speech is ripped right from the American Reform Party [1] without providing any sourcing, nor evidence that these are not my opponent's own words. Little of what is said is actually has supporting evidence. It would appear that this is nothing more than "preaching to the choir." I will not address claims not related to the resolution, "we should overthrow the [US] government."

The word "should" indicates a moral statement. That we have an "obligation" to do something. To come to that opinion, we must first look to a moral code to weigh against. Some common moral codes are utilitarianism (a branch of consequentialism) and deontology (in this case, the rule book is the constitution).

Since my opponent has focused on the constitution and the DoI, I will assume he is refering to Deontology. But, if he wishes to argue Utilitarianism in the next round, he is free to do so.

A quick overview of deontology, it is a ethical position that the right thing to do is to follow the rule book, and the wrong thing to do is to not follow the rule book. In this case, our rule book would be the constitution and our founding papers (such as the declaration of independence).

I challenge my opponent to find any part of the constitution that gives the citizens any duty to overthrow the government. It does give us the power to vote, so that we can vote in different people into leadership. However, voting is not the same as overthrowing. We also have the power to recall and impeach individuals within government. However, like voting, this is not the same as overthrowing.

If we turn to the DoI, my opponent makes a wonderful quote, "But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." [2]

To understand this, we must first understand "despotism," since our moral duty is to overthrow a government if it reduces us to "absolute despotism."

Despotism [3] - "1.The exercise of absolute power."

Now, let us look to see if anyone in government holds "absolute power" or anything close to it. Looking at the recent specticals of Congress, we can see that no one holds absolute power. We can also see that the entire concept of being able to vote someone into and out of office is proof that "absolute power" does not exist within our government, and so despotism does not exist within our government.

This means that there is no moral duty to overthrow the government, and that to overthrow the government would actually be immoral by constitutional deontology.

[1] http://www.americanreform.org...
[2] http://www.ushistory.org...
[3] http://www.google.com...
Debate Round No. 1
shipman37

Pro

shipman37 forfeited this round.
Ore_Ele

Con

I hope that whatever factors caused my opponent to miss the deadline are not too serious and are quickly and positively resolved. I'll go ahead and extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
shipman37

Pro

shipman37 forfeited this round.
Ore_Ele

Con

My opponent has been online, and simply choosen not to debate. Perhaps he is overwhelmed by doing 5 debates at once. Either way I'll let this debate end.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Connor666 6 years ago
Connor666
*unless
Posted by Connor666 6 years ago
Connor666
Overthrowing the gov. would not go to smoothly. Un less your about as charismatic as the Antichrist but that is very doubtful.
Posted by Ore_Ele 6 years ago
Ore_Ele
To think, the reform party use to be one of my favorite 3rd parties.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
shipman37Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Zarroette 3 years ago
Zarroette
shipman37Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: ff, Pro's conduct was shocking, considering the amount that he plagiarised. Con wins sources, for being the only one to provide any legitimate ones.
Vote Placed by BlackVoid 6 years ago
BlackVoid
shipman37Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Plagiarism forfeit.
Vote Placed by Mestari 6 years ago
Mestari
shipman37Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.
Vote Placed by Lordknukle 6 years ago
Lordknukle
shipman37Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious much?