soccer: barcelona is currently better than real madrid
Debate Rounds (5)
1. Real Madrid are 5 points ahead of Barcelona currently in La Liga with more wins. They also have scored 8 more goals and have a better goal difference.(1) Real Madrid also did better than any other team winning all 6 Champions league group games something Barcelona did not do as well as having the best goal difference in the CL.
2. Real Madrid only lost last season to Barcelona by 4 points and scarred more goals. Clearly currently being ahead 5 points now rather than Barcelona winning by 4 points months ago makes them currently a better team.
3. Last year Real Madrid beat Barcelona for the Copa Del Rey 1-0, so Barcelona don't win all the trophies or always win.
4. Ronaldo is better than Messi. Messi has 136 goals in Barcelona's last 3 seasons whilst Ronaldo has 151 for Real Madrid. They both play attacking midfield. Ronaldo was also able 42 goals in 49 appearances for Manchester United showing his ability to play the highest level in both the English and the Spanish league, Messi wouldn't be able to handle the physical play.
5. Real Madrid has 2 Ballon d'Or winners on its team whilst Barcelona have one. Casiallias has also made the UEFA team of the year 5 times running despite playing in a position where only one player will be selected. (2) This is more times than Messi or anyone on the current Barcelona team has been picked. He has also won the IFFHS best goal keeper in the world a record 4 times even though it has been around since 1987. (3)
6. I think a more interesting debate is which club is greater of all time or is this Barcelona team better than any other Real Madrid team because there is quite an obvious consensus today.
-And about who is better Ronaldo or Messi true there maybe many things that prove each to be better than the other but again if you watched the games yourself and saw the way each plays it safe to assume that messi for one has a much better footwork while ronaldo is faster but messi plays smart and always passes around when he is near the goal to ensure a goal while ronaldo at first was a ball hog and now just tries to shoot when he gets near the goal rather than passing it to someone who might have a better shot. I'm not saying that he shouldn't take the shot but if someone has a better shot than he does and Ronaldo noticed the other player for example Ozil then he should pass it to Ozil. And I agree that casillas is the best goally and he deserves that title because as I mention Madrid stops being offensive after a couple goals then casillas does most of the defending. The goally is the only one doing much work because of the many shots taken at their goal I'm surprised that out of the many shots only a few go in. even if Madrid loses the goally casillas works the hardest so he is the best goally but this just proves that the team has a weak defense compared to others.
if your looking for a reference I mostly remember them from the time I watched them but you can check out goalzz.com to view these wins that Barcelona has achieved.
2. As stated before Real Madrid are higher in La Liga by 5 points and have a better goal difference. They also did better in the current Champions League. Yet again these are statistical things from right now where Real Madrid are playing at a higher level than Barcelona. Over the 5 past La Liga seasons Real Madrid's point total has been 7 points higher than that of Barcelona. (1)
3. The last 5 matches between these teams has been 1 win for Real Madrid, 1 win for Barcelona and 3 draws. They played just 24 hours ago in a 2-2 draw where Real had in my opinion an unfair red card and a goal dissallowed. With many feeling as if Madrid were the better team.
4. As mentioned they both play the same position yet Ronaldo has scored more frequntly and hase been selected to the UEFA team of the Year 6 times compared to Messi's 4.
5. Saying Barcelona is a better playing team than Madrid is very subjective. As stated Madrid are doing better in La Liga currently and over the past 5 years cummitavely. They both play beautiful football yet one doesn't have to roll around on the floor for 30 minutes. It is fairly clear that Madrid are beating Barcelona at the moment in a league which better suits Barcelona whilst if they played in the more physical premiership or Bundesleague Real Madrid would cope better.
6. As stated Real Madrid has two Fifa World Players of the year on its team(2), whilst Barcelona have 1. As you conceeded Real Madrid have the better goal keeper. Real Madrid have scorere higher than Barcelona in each of the last 3 seasons in La Liga proving they have the more dangerous attack. For the World Cup Spain even picked more Real Madrid defenders than it did for Barcelona.(3)
2- I don't quite understand what you mean by "Over the 5 past La Liga seasons Real Madrid's point total has been 7 points higher than that of Barcelona." because this league was owned by Barcelona 2008-2009, 2009-2010, 2010-2011. so its impossible for them to have beaten Barcelona by seven points for 5 years when the latest three years have been one by Barcelona. Now about those last five games, its true that Madrid won one of the matches but honestly that goal was the only one they could get and on top of that they fouled a lot and proof of that was that di Maria got a red card and 5 other members had yellow card. The match had been 0-0 and entered extra time Barcelona as I remember had more positioning of the ball and had much more shots on the real Madrid's goal. Barcelona played much better than real Madrid but in the first half of extra time both teams tired and Barcelona team was a hurt due to earlier fouls and Madrid was able to score a goal due to the circumstances( http://goalzz.com...) . overall it was good but Madrid didn't play honorably. another case of that would be their last match 2-2. the game started interesting first half both side playing fair and was exciting because both side had the chance of scoring the first goal and out of nowhere Barcelona scores 2 goals I admit Barcelona had more position of the ball and passed the ball to each other in sync form and earned those 2 goals. In the second half things get ugly when the dam team of Madrid start fouling the hell out of Barcelona even though in the first half Madrid fouled a Barcelona player in the penalty area (http://goalzz.com...) if u look at this link you should see the amount of yellow cards that has been given to the team of Madrid. All I have to say about the second half is that it wasn't the usual soccer match but Benzima did have a very nice goal. Real Madrid isn't better than Barcelona for many reason and this match proves it. This match and its previous were added together and the outcome that came was Barcelona had advanced because they won both matches and that tie was their win 4-3.
3- the only reason ronaldo scored more goals is because he doesn't know how to do anything else. messi on the other hand is much better at technique, the ability to create an opportunity to score goals and the way he passes the balls to his team mates. Messi could score all those shots by himself and beat ronaldo at his own game but he sees an opportunity for a goal and takes it. this video shows how he goes through 4 players () Messi easily moves past players and always seems to assist in the goals. so between messi and ronaldo Messi creates more opportunities for a goal and has the most assists a player can have. Maybe that can answer your question about the goals. messi always passes the ball to his team mates in a way they score goals. this shows that he can score, always assists and has less goals because unlike ronaldo who receives the pass to score a goal messi makes that pass. Players who can successfully do that are much better at the game than those who only wait for an opportunity to come toward them.
4- depending on how people will look at this argument depends on whether or not they cheer Barcelona or Madrid or which player they like more. Just so you know I'm a Madrid fan but I'm just stating the true facts. Madrid currently are as good as they were when zidan was still playing. They play much rougher and aren't in sync as they use to be. They pass, they go for the win but its not the same as Barcelona. The fact still remains that real Madrid needs to start playing more as a team than separate players. Also against Barcelona they can easily score goals but usually after they score the first goal they go to defense which is a problem because they are giving more opportunity for Barcelona to score. If we look at the true hard facts between both teams Barcelona is currently better.
1. Real Madrid saw a huge overhaul of their team after the 2008-2009 season. Only 4 of their starting XI from that season still play for them. That summer Madrid sold 88.5 million Euros of players and bought 259 million euros worth of players.(1) Any team that loses the likes of Huntlerlaar, Robben, Heize, Cannavaro and Van Nistelrooy whilst gaining the likes of Kaka, Ronaldo, Benzema and Alonso is going to be a radically different team. Barcelona won those 6 titles not only several years ago but also against a much different Real Madrid team. The Barcelona team was not even completely the same with as I mentioned before neither Henry or Eto'o still playing for Barcelona. In fact Real Madrid went from finishing 9 points behind Barcelona in 2008 to finishing 3 points behind them in 2009.
With that said they had the skill to move past that and win 6 consecutive cups/leagues proving they are the best.
2. Or more appropriately that they were the best. Barcelona is a slightly different team now, whilst Madrid is a much improved team now. Especially in Europe the strength of teams have change dramatically since 2008, as I stated before Manchester City finished 40 points behind Man U in the premiership of the season Barcelona won 6 titles.(2) The 6 titles that Barcelona won in 2008 is irrelevant to Barcelona Real Madrid discussions today.
2009 was the year where they only obtained one trophy but they did hell of a lot better than Madrid.
3. Barcelona had only really swapped Eto'o for Ibrahimovic by this point as I mentioned earlier Real Madrid saw practically the whole team change. With the amount of player changes, with almost all coming from different teams and leagues it is going to take time to adjust. It is also worth noting that Madrid only came 3 points behind Barcelona and scored more despite the lack of playing time as a new team.
they won both matches and that tie was their win 4-3.
4. They won a match and drew the other. As you stated yourself concerning Real Madrid in the first game ,"they scored the first goal then decided to play defensively the entire game giving the opportunity to Barcelona to try and score as many goals as possible.," making it sound as if Madrid made a tactical mistake rather than being an inferior team. In the second leg Sergio Rammos had a goal disallowed which I thought should have stood, of course this was before either of Madrid's accepted goals so it is extremely difficult to judge what would have happened. Goal.com even stated that Madrid were the better side during the opening half and Barcelona's goals were against the run of play(3). None of the recent games between the sides have shown a clear superiority for Barcelona.
The fact still remains that real Madrid needs to start playing more as a team than separate players.
5. Barcelona scored 148 goals last season, 98 of which came from the trio of Messi, Pedro and Villa. That's 66% of al their goals by 3 players. Real Madrid scored 146 goals last season. 92 of which came from their 3 top scorer which is 62%. Rather simply the point is that Barcelona are no more cohesive as a team than Madrid is currently. Back in 2009 when this New Madrid team had only just been formed this may have been true, but now it is no longer the case.
messi on the other hand is much better at technique, the ability to create an opportunity to score goals
6. In last season's La Liga Messi scored 31 goals and had 18 assists or rather simply created 49 goals . Whilst Ronaldo had 40 goals and 10 assists or created 50 goals in a way(4). These are statistics of the two when they have played the same teams in the same number of games. Obviously technique is a matter of debate but look at that video and state that Ronaldo isn't one of the best in the world technically..
If we look at the true hard facts between both teams Barcelona is currently better.
7. Madrid is 5 points ahead of Barcelona; that is a fact. Madrid has a better goal difference in La Liga, which is also a fact. Madrid did better in the group stages of the Champions league this year. They have two Fifa player of the year winners on their team compared to Barcelona's one. They have scored more goals in La Liga for the past 3 years( comparing other competitions would be less useful due to them playing different teams) proving they have the more effective attacking play. 3 Real Madrid defenders are on the Spanish national team compared to Barcelona's two(5). This is in spite of the fact that 3 of Madrid's defenders are not Spanish whilst Barcelona has only 2 non Spanish defenders. .
These are all cold hard facts backing Real Madrid as being the better team currently.
1- This backs up my point that both teams began going through changes from 2008-2009 and Barcelona won 6 championships with some new players just like Madrid but the different was that Barcelona obviously played more as a team rather than each player playing on his own. I remember when the new real Madrid team first played each player was trying to show off and show that they are better than each other rather than play as a team. Also Barcelona won 5 trophies in 2010-2011 so they still are the best rather than were the best. Also if we look at this years game its true Madrid is doing very well in all its matches except against Barcelona. In the Cope Del Rey cup 2 matches Barcelona won one and tied with Madrid. In the la liga Barcelona won one of the 2 matches. Madrid still has no win against Barcelona. Also ill say this to keep it simple for you, 2008-2009 6 trophies, 2009-2010 1 trophy, 2010-2011 5 trophies. So This by itself is screaming Viva Barcelona.
"making it sound as if Madrid made a tactical mistake rather than being an inferior team"
2- the fact that they did that every game they played against Barcelona except the last one proves that Barcelona is better and again I didn't say that they were inferior because again real Madrid and Barcelona over the many years they played against each other each team proved to be the best at a certain point. The fact that they made this tactical mistake proves that Barcelona is the better team. Also adding to this point in every game Barcelona also positions the ball more than Madrid.
" Goal.com even stated that Madrid were the better side during the opening half and Barcelona's goals were against the run of play(3). None of the recent games between the sides have shown a clear superiority for Barcelona."
3- I'm glad you finally said that they did better the first half because that just prove that you agree with my previous statement that the second half Madrid began to foul and play dirty and the only clean goal was Benzima goal over puyol so this clarifies that Barcelona even under the pressure of Madrid managed to score 2 goals where the second goal was a great shot over the defense of Madrid in to the top right corner of the goal. All the recent games prove that Barcelona dominated the fact that they won 2-1(first match in cope del rey) 3-1 (first match in the la liga) 2-2(last match in cope del rey and as I mentioned before first half Barcelona score under pressure and then second half they get fouled a lot and if I remember correctly they even injured an Barcelona player)
4- I won't stress on this much because even all ronaldo fans know that messi is better and the video you posted was when he was in Manchester and I agree when he was in Manchester he was way better than how he is in Madrid. Its true is doing well but again messi has better foot work and more assists and easily goes past players and overall plays much better than ronaldo in each game. Ronaldo is a bad player but between him and messi is only goal difference. Barcelona and Madrid, madrid only has more goals.
5- lastly as I said before its true Madrid has the lead in la liga but it hasn't beat Barcelona once in this league. they did do good in the champion league qualification but I didn't see a challenging team in its group and it got high than Barcelona only by 2 points also Barcelona had AC Milan in its group so I think Barcelona did just as good as Madrid and right now they are in the knockout stage well see how it goes from there. good for Madrid since it scored more goal in the last la liga leagues but Barcelona won both of them and that all that matters. also Barcelona never lost once to Madrid in any of the previous la liga that you mentioned so still proving that Barcelona is better and I don't what Spanish or non Spanish defenders have to do with Barcelona being better but we will have to wait and see what will happen each of the current open leagues to see if its Madrid turn to truly shine because currently Barcelona hasn't lost once to Madrid and that alone proves it to be the best.
1. Real Madrid experienced pretty much all their change at the end of that season. As you stated they started off badly trying to one up each other rather than playing as a team, which is why they have only just recently tapped into their full playing ability. Yet again the titles of years gone past are futile when discussing which team is currently better.
Also ill say this to keep it simple for you, 2008-2009 6 trophies, 2009-2010 1 trophy, 2010-2011 5 trophies
2. All I'll say to keep this simple is Real Madrid has 52 points on 51 goal difference. Whilst Barcelona has 45 points with 47 goal difference(1). This is CURRENTLY, not 2 years ago. This is against the same opponents over a consistent period of time.
Its true is doing well but again messi has better foot work and more assists and easily goes past players and overall plays much better than Ronaldo in each game.
3. As I proved last round in last Year's La Liga Ronaldo's goals and assists were a greater combined total than Messi's. Saying Messi has better footwork is subjective, in my opinion Ronaldo has proved to be a better player due to his versatility. He made the UEFA team of the year in 2004 as a midfielder who got 9 goals in 50 appearances. Yet he made it this year as a forward with 53 goals in 54 appearances. He has proved he can be the best in different positions in different leagues. He has not played with the same team since he was 12 doing the exact same thing. He has only just recently truly adapted to his position in Real Madrid a bit like how the rest of the real Madrid team has. In fact the most relevant point to this is the fact that Ronaldo currently has 24 goals to Messi's 22 in La Liga whist only having one less assist. This is not a debate over which team has been better over the last few years or who has made a team in a more ethical way it is simply a case of which team is currently better which is clearly Real Madrid. By the way in terms of all people thinking Messi is better here is a poll from January 2012 which has 59% choosing Ronaldo over Messi currently.
lastly as I said before its true Madrid has the lead in la Liga but it hasn't beat Barcelona once in this league.
4. Time for another Man City example. In the 2004/2005 premiership Chelsea lost one game and drew the other with Man City but finished 43 points higher.(3) As mentioned the last time these two teams played it was at Barcelona's ground where it finished a draw.
Madrid play foul and dirty
5. In last season's La Liga Real Madrid got 94 yellow cards to Barcelona's 95. (4) When a strong gust of wind will cause the Barcelona players to go to ground it is obviously going to look as if Madrid has "fouled" them. As I've stated before it is less a case of teams kicking Barcelona because they can't play football with them but rather that Barcelona can't match up with them physically. As Rafa Benitzes stated Premier League is quicker and has bigger physical demands than the Spanish championship(5), meaning that Barcelona are in a league that helps their tic-tac 5ft8 average height style of team. If these teams played in England or Germany Real Madrid would have even more than the 7 points they currently have on Barcelona.
1- It true in the league Madrid has more points than Barcelona and more goals but if we look at this debate it is meant between Barcelona and Madrid rather than the many teams they face because I can say Madrid one every match in la liga but still hasn't beat Barcelona to me that just shows that it is better than all the other teams and it one the league but they didn't win once against Barcelona. second Madrid is going for it first la liga in the past 3 years so if they keep there winning streak good for them that is 1 trophy. Barcelona on the other hand won 5 trophies last year and again hopefully will win them again.
2- Now messi and ronaldo rather than look at combine let us look at them separately that how we know who is more distinguished. In the matter about footwork in every game I have watched for both Madrid and Barcelona I have noticed that in Barcelona messi has outstanding footwork followed by both afellay and inesta. In Madrid ronaldo was as good as messi and he was and currently is worse than he was on Manchester united which is why you put that video. Second benzima and kaka have much better foot work than ronaldo and ronaldo all he got is speed and goals that all sometimes but very rare he has a great play which brings me to my next point assists. Of course you even said it your self messi in every game alone has more assists than ronaldo alone which is why you combined goals and assists before. I already said that he has more goals but its known that messi has more assists. Since we are talking about the current year and current players not that its different from the past but in 2004 he was the best and again Manchester united bro I agree he was great but is using past tense because the games themselves show the truth and all he does is score and nothing else. If I were to continue the fact the messi and the rest of the team are more in sync than Madrid could ever be. The many and many successful passes Barcelona does in each game and the way each pass is made makes the other team look like amateur. Madrid on the other hand has bad sync and they only force there way through rather than in a strategic way. In the end Messi is currently better than ronaldo no matter how you look at it. Messi can do many things while ronaldo can only score goals. Not that scoring goals is bad but it is only used to compare teams the way you keep pointing out.
3- Bro stop trying to justify that game by putting together the overall cards achieved in the game at Cope del rey where they tied. In that game both teams against each other the fact that they got all those card while Barcelona only had 3 shows that Madrid couldn't have tied with out fouling. Soccer isn't determined by size bro messi is small but makes a fool of those bigger than him on the field. The fact is that soccer is a team sport and it needs endurance so the excuse that it is because Madrid has a nothing to do with the physical standard of the player because a foul is a foul in any language and the only people who would disagree with that are fans and the same thing going around. If real Madrid can play fair the way I said they would lose to Barcelona no matter what and what proved that was the previous matches between both teams.
4- Madrid may have taken one trophy but we can also say the Barcelona has one too so they are tied at that standards. Then we look who one more matches between them since my debate is who is currently better Madrid hasn't one once and Barcelona has won twice and tied once. Currently between both teams Barcelona has a higher standards no matter how much difference in goal between real and Barcelona. The fact remains that for the past 3 years Madrid hasn't won Barcelona except once and that was from 2010-2011 cope del rey which was the only cup Barcelona lost that year since they had 5 trophies. Since this debate is about the current time and it is between Madrid and Barcelona no other team, as the title of the debate states, "soccer: Barcelona is currently better than real Madrid" Barcelona as I stated before ranks better in charisma and teamwork which are both flaws in Madrid and also they won Madrid in the CURRENT leagues every single time even that tie was a win which cost Madrid to advance in the Cope del rey so currently Barcelona has proved to be at a higher stand than Madrid.
Your argument seems to consist of 4 main points-
1. The fact Barcelona won a bunch of trophies in the last few seasons, which really isn't that applicable since it is on what is happening currently. I have already stated that over the last 3 seasons according to wikipaedia(the most reliable of sources) that Barcelona has seen transfer transactions at 303.25 million Euros. Real Madrid over the same time has seen 505 million Euros. Even though football players maybe over priced it is clear that the teams have changed dramatically over the past few years making Barcelona's past achievements even less useful to the current standings. As you said yourslf the new Madrid team were a disorganized team at the start and it must be remembered this is only Jose Mourinho's second season as manager. Madrid have improved considerably even when soley compared to last year. They have finderly found their form.
2. Messi being better than Ronado. Whilst I have offered statistical date for Ronaldo being better(being selected to more UEFA teams, having a greater combined goals and assits, winning acolades at different positions) your argument seems to mainly be that Messi has better footwork. It's hard to make a distintion between which has better footwork but my points clearly support Ronaldo. Ronaldo has been the top scorer in different leagues in different teams playing different positons. He has shown more versatility than Messi.
3. Real Madrid never beating Barcelona. My opponent never really offered why my Manchester City point wasn't valid as a rebuttal. The point is that the last 5 coppa Del Rey Matches between these two has seen Madrid win two games , Barceloa have won one game and 2 draws. The last time these two played it was a 2-2 draw in which Real Madrid had more shots and more posession.(1)
4. Barcelona playing "better" football than Madrid. This is another very subjective argument. I have proven that Barcelona actually recieved more yellow cards last season and Madrid consistently scores more goals showing them a more exciting team. No evidence has really been used to support the idea that Barcelona pass better or play a more beautiful style than Real Madrid. I personally find the aggresive goal scorer Madrid a better team to watch.
Though this debate mainly comes down to my points which have not been refuted.
1. Madrid has a better goal keeper(Prop even admitted this "And I agree that casillas is the best goally")
2. Madrid has two world player of the years on it compared to Barcelona's one.
3. Madrid's team has consistently outscored Barcelona's even though they play exactly the same teams on a yearly basis. Proving they have a more dangerous attack.
4. Real Madrid is 7 points higher in La Liga and has a better goal difference. Yet again results of years gone by do not apply to who is currently better, the results of the two teams against the other teams in the league over the past few months does and Madrid have been vastly superior.
5. More Madrid defenders were picked by the spanish national side despite having fewer Spanyards in their defence.
Basically this is not about which side you actually believe is currently better but rather who has given the better arguments, counter their opponenents arguments better and who has used sources and facts to present a better argument. I believe I have offered more to show that Real Madrid is better than Barcelona currently.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by imabench 4 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: during this debate, the two actual teams played each other to a 2-2 tie. This showed that Barcelona is not better than Real Madrid, but also that Real Madrid was not better than Barcelona, negating both BOP's each side had to fill. Arguments are thus tied but pro gets spelling and the con gets sources
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