The Instigator
joshuaXlawyer
Con (against)
Losing
20 Points
The Contender
TheSkeptic
Pro (for)
Winning
80 Points

sould abortion be legal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2009 Category: Health
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,780 times Debate No: 6529
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (16)

 

joshuaXlawyer

Con

i strongly disaprove of abortion because abortion is killing some one,in the law it is a crime, and just because it is not born yet does not justify taking a life. Most abortions are teen abortions most for teens wanting to have "fun" and not think about the cause and effects of what they are doing.Just because some teen who doesn't want the burden of being mother shouldn't have the right to kill a baby.they must learn that its there fault in the first place,thats like some one robbing a bank and not think your gonna go to jail for it.Now if it was a raped victim then maybe but there is always adoption and same for the teens that want to have "fun". This is my case
TheSkeptic

Pro

I thank my opponent for starting this debate. I haven't debated in awhile, and I'm bored. So let's go:

I affirm that abortion should be legal because it should be the woman's choice (her body). Additionally, it is NOT murder therefore making the priority the woman's body.

Note that definitions of laws and such will be kept under the jurisdiction of the United States. I don't intend to argue about abortion cases in other countries and it doesn't seem my opponent does either (though I doubt the definitions of murder are vastly different amongst most countries).

=====Counterarguments=====

"because abortion is killing some one,in the law it is a crime,"
----> Killing someone (murder) is defined in US Law as intentionally causing another person's death without legal excuse or justification [1]. Note the usage of "person". A person is defined in U.S. law as either a human being [2] or a corporate, business, etc. The second definition is irrelevant to this debate. Once again, note the usage of "human being". In current United States law, at the moment of birth a biological being becomes a human being [3]. Thus, legally abortion is NOT a murder so this claim is FALSE.

"and just because it is not born yet does not justify taking a life."
----> Does masturbating become murder? If so, OH THE TYRANNY!

"Most abortions are teen abortions most for teens wanting to have "fun" and not think about the cause and effects of what they are doing."
----> Please show me the statistic for this claim. Even if this is true, so what?

"Just because some teen who doesn't want the burden of being mother shouldn't have the right to kill a baby."
----> It's not a baby. It's not a human being. It's not a person. It's a FETUS. It's a MASS OF TISSUE. Kinda like a tumor that grows fast.

"they must learn that its there fault in the first place,thats like some one robbing a bank and not think your gonna go to jail for it."
----> Erroneous analogy. Robbing a bank is a crime. As I have shown earlier, abortion is not.

=====Conclusion=====

I argue that since a fetus is not a human being, then the mother's right should be considered paramount. My opponent has failed to show how abortion is murder.

---References---
1. http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com...
2. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
3. http://www.eileen.250x.com...
Debate Round No. 1
joshuaXlawyer

Con

Objection! For one ----> Erroneous analogy. Robbing a bank is a crime. As I have shown earlier, abortion is not. this is not used about crime but about responsibility.

For two "It's not a baby. It's not a human being. It's not a person. It's a FETUS. It's a MASS OF TISSUE. Kinda like a tumor that grows fast."
fetus-
In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo
embryo-
An "organism" in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
Organism-
An individual form of "life", such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.
LIFE FORM meaning its alive
TheSkeptic

Pro

I thank my opponent for his swift response!

=====Counterarguments=====

"this is not used about crime but about responsibility."
----> Responsibility? So if a kid procrastinates, which means he is irresponsible, should he be punished by law? Or what if I oversleep? The law should be concerned with protecting it's citizens from other citizens, not to try to be a nanny.

1. Life Organism

My opponent argues that since a fetus is an organism, then abortion should not be legal. I have two objections to this:

A. Life forms aren't necessarily human beings. A plant is an organism. An insect is an organism. Cattle are organisms. So everything I kill a mosquito I should be imprisoned? Everything I eat a salad I should be arrested? Every steak I touch should give me 15-25 years in jail? Preposterous.

B. Murder is defined as the intentional killing of a human being. Not all life organisms, such as a fetus, are humans. Thus, abortion should be legal.

=====Conclusion=====

My opponent has not shown how killing a fetus is murder. He has not shown how killing organisms should be murder or should take importance over the rights of a mother.
Debate Round No. 2
joshuaXlawyer

Con

So I still haven't proved that its a human its a life form but it is a potencel human you know eventually it will be a human heck its the early stages of "Human" beings yet you know this but denied its existence all your doing is hiding in definition you know it is a human yet all your doing is being blind its going to be a human and every person knows I know it you know it and all your doing is using big words to hide it that life form you so call is going to be human not a cat or a dog but it will be human and the women whoms so resonsable for it knows it the fact about being human is just a stupid conjecture.

this last definition "human" development .Development begins with fertilization, the process by which the male gamete, the sperm cell, and the female gamete, the oocyte, fuse to give rise to a diploid cell, the zygote. In pregnancy the 3 stages are commonly referred to as ZEF - meaning Zygote, Embryo, Fetus.

In medicine, pregnancy is defined as beginning when a fertilized zygote becomes implanted in a woman's uterus. This occurs when the zygote then becomes embedded into the endometrium (lining of the uterus) where it forms a placenta, for the purpose of receiving essential nutrients through the uterus wall. The umbilical cord in a newborn child signifies the remnants of implantation.
TheSkeptic

Pro

I thank my opponent for starting this debate and being so speedy. I've never finished a debate (I think) in one day.

=====Counterarguments=====

My opponent's argument basically lies on one major point: that a fetus has the potential to become a human being. Of course, I totally agree with this statement. However, this being a viable argument against abortion, I am against. And I will show you why:

1. As I've said before, would this make masturbation illegal? This point has gone unrefuted, and it serves as a major problem for my opponent. Some people would say masturbation isn't a viable point because only the sperm is there, no egg is present. But I ask of them, why does it matter? Sure, having an egg and a sperm together is a step closer to having a fetus which leads to having a baby - but does this exclude the notion of masturbation? No, because masturbation would just be a step behind or farther. Masturbation STILL has some of the prerequisites for a human being, just not as much as a fetus. My opponent fails to show why our reasoning should stop right at the fetus, and not on masturbation or anything before that.

2. It can be made implicit in my opponent's argument that killing a fetus will remove it's possible future experiences as a human. Not only does my example of masturbation make this a problem, there is yet another point to be made. If we are to judge one's importance based on the amount of future experiences they can have, then this means that old people are less valuable than younger people. Obviously, a simple difference like age is ridiculous when considering such moral evaluations.

=====Conclusion=====

My opponent has shuffled around his argument a couple of times. At first, he stated that abortion is murder. I showed that murder applies to humans, not fetuses. He then argues that a fetus is still an organism, but I showed to him that we kill and eat organisms everyday (many times for trivial reasons). Finally, he argues that a fetus will eventually become a human, but he has failed one of my earlier points about masturbation (which I have brought up again). I have refuted all his points and my arguments still stand: VOTE PRO.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by hatgirl 8 years ago
hatgirl
Hmm . . .
In response to Maya9:
I don't think that not having experience with something makes you unable to judge or put forth ideas on a topic. Honestly, we can't disregard people's opinions just because they have no personal experience with the issue.

If I think that child rape is wrong, should my opinions be disregarded as someone who is unable to make judgments, simply because I was not raped as a baby?
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
"The votes as usual jump up so much so fast."

Um. Josh. Duh. :D
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 8 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
look all im saying is you shouldn't just judge people by there age just because I'm 15 does mean I don't think for myself and have my own beliefs
Posted by Maya9 8 years ago
Maya9
Vote counts like this make me want to kill.
Posted by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
The votes as usual jump up so much so fast.
Posted by patsox834 8 years ago
patsox834
I think it should -- although, to me, it's more of a moral issue; I don't look at it with as much pragmatism as most.

I think we should all have the freedom to do whatever we want to our bodies -- if you don't have that basic freedom, then I don't really think wherever you live is "free."
Posted by Maya9 8 years ago
Maya9
Old hag...? I'd hardly consider 20 to be old.

I'm not judging you for your age. I made that quite clear in my comment. Obviously, you chose to ignore my words. I stated explicitly that I did not believe that the fact that you are 15 made you wrong (that would be grossly illogical). I said that the fact of your age made it unlikely that you have ever had to personally deal with the prospect of parenthood, and therefore did not have the perspective to judge.
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 8 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
my age sorry!
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 8 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
you have no right to judge me about mage age you old hag!
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
I never thought I'd see the day Phoenix Wright would lose a case . . .
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