The Instigator
Sidex
Pro (for)
The Contender
stcornerap
Con (against)

stcornerap does not know jesus

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/4/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 290 times Debate No: 97636
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Sidex

Pro

I challenge stcornerap to his claim that he knows God's Love better than I do. I grow weary of your unseen words, but I will never run away from the light.

"What do you mean "out dated information"? Do you mean to say the living word of God is outdated. Again your back with the quotes. It is a good thing to memorize scripture and to be able to use it in apologetics. I read the Bible, you haven't brought up anything that I don't know, haven't read, or don't understand. But memorizing scripture is an intellectual act that doesn't prove having a relationship with or knowing Jesus. Islamic apologists have the Bible memorized better than most Christians. It doesn't mean they know Jesus. Satan knows the scripture better than anyone on earth and it doesn't grant him authority or power, and least of all salvation. The scripture you have quoted today has only worked against you. You see I'm not the most educated man in the world, I'm not a scholar. But I don't need to be. You're not up against me, or my words. You're up against the living word of God and that is a battle you just can't win. I haven't really had to say anything. You've been getting knocked down left and right and it's not my doing. It's because you're trying to come up with logic that though logical isn't God's logic, but you're trying to attach God's name to it and it won't ever work. It may work in some people who are not born again just as the LDS church has for example. They want to have their own religion but attach God's name to it. They also use scripture to back up their claims but it doesn't work for them just as it's not working for you. I really feel for you but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim the Christian God then preach a different gospel. I believe that you believe that you know God and I think in some ways on an intellectual level you understand a lot about Him. But I haven't seen any signs that you know Him on a personal level, or that it matters to you to follow His word. I think you want to follow what you think He wants, but you want to decide what He wants and how the world should go about doing it instead of following Him you want to lead. Even if that means only listening to some of his word and ignoring the parts that don't fit your plan. I think your a good guy that wants to see the world change and be a better place, I just want you to know that it brings no pleasure to God when you teach people falsely in his name. It brings him no pleasure when you turn people away from Christianity by bashing it and claiming to be a profit. You don't get to choose to be a prophet God chooses. He has given us his last word in His son Jesus with no need for further prophets, and if He chose to introduce a prophet all of his words would match up with the Lords, there would be no contradiction. I'm afraid that with your current approach there is no one for you to help. I believe you could be a mighty vessel for the Lord and that He has great purpose for you. I believe that if it's in the Lords will you can change lives and make a difference. But what you are doing now is not in the Lords will, you are not doing the Lords work, and I hope you can seek counsel and see this truth. The Bible tells us to seek counsel proverbs 12:15. There you go I used a quote"

Oh how little your mind is to think that you know the Truth, tell me, if good people have never known of Jesus, would they be saved? If not, doesn't that imply that God created people with only one choice to go to hell? Jesus or God does not need to be worshiped. They as individuals do not need their name in unity, but their spirit will travel across the world in many different forms. What you fail to realize is I once turned from Jesus because of YOUR hypocrisy. I will not stand for it any longer that you think you know better than me. Answer these questions first or explain their irrelevance. I will not let you deflect. You have no words of substance to use against me anyway, but I have the words of Christ against you. Let us be judged by our peers.
stcornerap

Con

I stand by what I said. I think you're a good guy with good intentions. I also stand by the fact that it is your will that you proclaim and not God's. In terms of the Bible good people don't go to heaven, saved people do. You can be the nicest guy in town and not except Jesus as your Lord and savior. Or you can be a person who has lived a colorful life, turn to Jesus and be saved. We're not debating the world view, The atheist view, or the view of any other religions that uses the Bible , we are debating the Christian view and I'm afraid you just don't understand it properly. That's OK I didn't either and I still have so much to learn. Like I've told you before you're not going up against myself or my words, you're taking on God. You want to fit Him into your beliefs and not what He teaches and that's just not biblical. You are a self proclaimed prophet who thinks that the Bible can't be understood properly unless people read your teachings 1st. You believe that people aren't wise enough to understand it either on their own, through the power and ministering of the Holy Spirit, or by any other teaching method other than your own. It's great to have ideas but we have to test those ideas against God's word to make sure they are biblical before we teach them to others and say that they belong to God. It would be incredible to have an Angel of light appear before me and give me revelation, but if the words of that Angel did not match up with the word of God I would not preach the words of the angel I would turn from it. Just as I turn from your words because I choose to follow God and not you. You are upset because there is not much value in a prophet that no one follows. You have tremendous value, and I believe that God has great purpose for you, but that purpose is not to be a profit that preaches a different gospel and claims it as the Lord's. I don't really want to debate with you, I just want to plant a seed of truth. The truth that if you want to follow and serve the God of the Bible, you have to follow him you can't lead Him.
Debate Round No. 1
Sidex

Pro

Oh how little your mind is to think that you know the Truth, tell me, if good people have never known of Jesus, would they be saved? If not, doesn't that imply that God created people with only one choice to go to hell? Jesus or God does not need to be worshiped. They as individuals do not need their name in unity, but their spirit will travel across the world in many different forms. What you fail to realize is I once turned from Jesus because of YOUR hypocrisy. I will not stand for it any longer that you think you know better than me. Answer these questions first or explain their irrelevance. I will not let you deflect. You have no words of substance to use against me anyway, but I have the words of Christ against you. Let us be judged by our peers.
stcornerap

Con

"Jesus or God does not need to be worshiped. They as individuals do not need their name in unity, but their spirit will travel across the world in many different forms."

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this so I'm not sure how to respond. God doesn't need our worship because He is sovereign and doesn't require anything from us. As far as individuals that do not need their name in unity I'm not sure what you mean, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are in unity and are one God according to the Christian view. Not sure where you're going with this.
As for good people being saved who don't know Jesus, the bible is clear on the point that being a good person does not give you salvation. We cannot be saved by our own works, we are saved by grace through faith. As for people in remote parts of the world that the message of the gospel has not reached, this is a subject that many good people have different opinions on. One thing we know is that God is evident everywhere. You can see God in creation. Take the Native Americans as an example. The gospel had not reached them but they knew there was a God. A God that provided the animals, the rain, the sun etc. They also knew that this God (or gods) deserved respect and to be considered Holy. They knew wrong from right and some would follow the right and some would follow the wrong. One could argue that those who acknowledged God from these natural understandings and acknowledged Gods rule over the world and chose the path of right could be saved.
This salvation could be argued but it isn't an answer that we are given, the answer we are given is that the only way to the Father is through the Son.
So instead of assuming that those who acknowledge God and choose the path of right vs wrong will be saved Christians are called to spread the gospel throughout the world. This is why we have missionaries. It would be nice to believe that those who have not heard the gospel can be saved but we don't know for sure, so we try to reach them so that they can hear God's word and know Jesus.
When we don't know something for sure we can't make assumptions based on our personal opinions and call it truth.
As for people that have access to the gospel but choose not to hear it I would say it's pretty clear. We can either choose God or not God. Those are our 2 choices. For the majority of my life I chose not God. It wasn't that I heard the gospel and rejected it, I chose to reject it without hearing it. I chose just not to participate. I used to believe that religion was a good thing because some people needed it but I didn't. I now know that a relationship with Jesus was what I was missing my whole life.
For someone who has access to the knowledge of the Christian God in any form whether easy to obtain or not, if they choose to not hear it, read it, listen to people minister, whatever the case may be I would say there is not much argument for their salvation. I can tell you that I always said that I was a good person, I didn't lie cheat and steal, and if there really is a God that would send me to hell instead of Heaven that I wouldn't want to be a part of that religion anyway. But now that I'm saved I feel completely differently and understand that hell is where I would haven't ended up if I hadn't turn to Christ. I will point out that only God has final judgment and it's not my place to say for sure who is going where. I can tell you that God tells us everything we need to know to assure our personal salvation.

So in conclusion, will good people who do not know Jesus go to hell, yes. Will good people who acknoweldge God in parts of the world that the gospel hasn't reached go to hell, I can't say for sure. All I can tell you is the safe side of that coin is to do all we can to spread the gospel to those people.
Debate Round No. 2
Sidex

Pro

Well you have guts, I'll give you that. Your argument is based on things that you do not know. Mine is based on what I do know. God has granted me sight to create a theorem that defines morality to His logic. You think I would have known this theorem that literally answers a philosophical question that Man has not been able to answer for thousands of years without God? What you are truly arguing is not even words of Christ. You just don't want Muslims or any other religion brought into the fold. Christ's and God's intention was always to save humanity. How are we saving it by telling so many are going to hell just because they don't the names right? Do you realize that you are being as stubborn as the pharisees that killed the Christ? Why do you think they killed him? He was saying that gentiles will eventually be brought into the fold, giving them less righteousness. I am saying that if people, not matter what they call their deity, will follow this theorem, then they will be saved. You don't need a unifying religion, just a unifying logic. I will say that anyone who follows me shall have salvation from the Lord your God. And he is coming.
stcornerap

Con

You can say that all day until you are blue in the face, it doesn't make it biblical. So far you have given your opinions but haven't shown how any of them relate to God or Christianity. You boast of your superiority but but give no evidence of it. You brought me here to this debate, when are you going to start? So far I can't tell that you've said anything or given me anything to debate. I'm kind of wondering what the end game is. If it was to make me look foolish I think your plan may have backfired. Frustrating right?
Debate Round No. 3
Sidex

Pro

I have already debated with you the words of Christ and you did not listen. I will bring our conversation to the light for people to see for themselves of how your opinion goes against the words of Jesus Christ.

You have said, "I apologize my last post was before I received yours. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me I really do. I agree with the general idea. It makes sense, but it's not biblical and not God's will or hope for humanity."

If it makes sense and is not biblical, then could you have interpreted the bible wrong?

>>>I want to lose my life in order to save it. I want to love my neighbor as myself.
I have said,"A Jewish man was walking down the street when he is beaten and robbed. A black liberal comes by, sees him and says,"I cannot help this man, for I must save black lives first." A white conservative comes along and says,"I cannot help this man, I am morally superior to him because he has killed my savior." A Muslim comes by, sees he is Jewish and says,"Come, friend, let me take you the hospital." They arrive and the Muslim says to the nurse," Here, I'll pay for his recovery."
Tell me good sir, which one of these 3 men was the Jewish man's neighbor?

You still have not answered the question. I would also like to ask, which one these men did God favor the most?

>>>You have said,"Christ wants us to love God and love people. He wants us to let him live through us. He wants us to let him show others love and grace through us. We are His body. He wants people to know that His love is for everyone. That no matter who you are and what you have done in your life that God loves you and Christ's invitation is open to you. He wants us to be the light of the world, to let His light show through us. There is nothing we can do for humanity or this world, nothing we can do.. it is all the work of Jesus we just have to surrender to him and let Him do His great work through us. There is no ego, there is nothing good that comes from me, it comes from Jesus.

>>>You can say that all day until you are blue in the face, it doesn't make it biblical. So far you have given your opinions but haven't shown how any of them relate to God or Christianity.

How are you not giving your opinion of what God is trying to say?

I actually don't boast. I have proven that I have moral superiority with my theorem. If you would like to tell me how I wrong in trying to save Humanity, then please do so. But I won't let that many people die simply because they won't get behind your arrogance. I am a humanitarian and so is Jesus.

The most important thing you can do in your life is to follow the Lord your God(whatever you want to call him) with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul. This theorem is what he wants. God is coming to marry with Humanity. And it is still corrupted by perversions of the heart.

Jesus wanted socialism so a person like the antichrist doesn't take everything.
The world has a finite amount of resources on it. Capitalism is about fewer people having control over those resources. The best way to represent those resources in a quantitative value is money. People give money to these fewer people. The problem is that these fewer people are sociopaths and thus morally obligated to share with the rest of Humanity. Jesus, on the other hand, knew he was going to Heaven and knew that he didn't need to accumulate anything on Earth.

10The crowds asked him, What then should we do?" 11John replied, "Whoever has two tunics should share with him who has none, and whoever has food should do the same." LUKE 3:10

25It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." MARK 10:25.

This is one of my favorite verses because of the elegance of the analogy. In Jerusalem, they have a wall around the city. In order for the camel to enter the walls, it was to be unloaded and directed into a narrow hole called "The eye of the needle". Jesus did not choose this analogy by accident, for it was a metaphor to what we have to do with our lives to enter the narrow gates of Heaven. My question to you is how many of the things that you have accumulated are you planning to bring you into Heaven? Now even if you create the excuse that you are leaving those things behind to your kids so they don't have to be poor themselves, didn't Jesus ask you to have faith?

28 And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. MATTHEW 6:28

Are you not implying that you have enough faith to move mountains, the same faith that is required for salvation, but not enough faith to believe that God will take care of your loved ones after you pass?

My faith will always be based on reason and logic, but I do trust God absolutely to give the things I need to follow the path He has set for me. I won't always know what lies ahead, I do not come from the future. But I will walk the path of reason and logic that God has set out for me. And eventually, it will require a "leap of faith".

>>>If it was to make me look foolish I think your plan may have backfired. Frustrating right?
You are foolish because you let your arrogance get the better of you. I am still not arrogant, for you have never proved me wrong, you just think that your opinion can over-compass my logic. Tell me how I am wrong with anything I have said or try to use verses against me in the next debate. I will point out your bias. I do claim that since I have used the words of Christ in my argument and you have not, I imply that I know the Christ better than you, thus making me a true Christian. Good luck and to finish off, my frustration is not because I doubt, my frustration is from that so many of you will never listen. You have no idea how much I can never belong in your world. Now continue to speak of things that you do not know, for that is the only thing you can do.

11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven"the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God"s one and only Son. 19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness more than light, because their deeds were evil.20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be clearly seen that what he has done has been accomplished in God." JOHN 3:11-21

Don't be afraid of the light that is coming, finally embrace it.
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by stcornerap 1 year ago
stcornerap
No, I don't think anybody did. LOL
Posted by Matpat 1 year ago
Matpat
Am I the only one to lazy to read the arguments?XD
Posted by fred70 1 year ago
fred70
Hey!!! Sidex, let's start a cult. You'll be the priest and I'll be your God.
Posted by Sidex 1 year ago
Sidex
You have failed to realize the purpose of religion. Why did God write all those laws at that time? You don't teach a toddler what you would teach an adult. Think of Humanity as the developement stages of an individual. They needed those laws at the time. You also have to taken into account of the bias of the autistic savant creating those laws from God. They are woried about their group, thus wanting to exapnd it. We don't need to expand anymore.We are in a time of reason where the old covenants do not matter anymore. Jesus threw it out once, and he's going to do it again. Unless you disagree with me then you are saying that you may never be able to enter Heaven because of the covenant that was based on blood. Even the ten commandments will be fulfilled now on a global level. Now is the time for you to realize what religion truly is. You have already said it makes sense. Stop being so stubborn.

Why don't you try saving the people who deserve to live today, the starving, the homeless, the poor before you judge which ones should not live. Even though this a huge point against you, every point that I ave made against you results in deflection with giving your opinion that represent many others without any substance. You have built your house on sand while I have made it on rock. We shall be judged by our peers so that I don't have to deal with your deflections.
Posted by stcornerap 1 year ago
stcornerap
( I am saying that if people, not matter what they call their deity, will follow this theorem, then they will be saved)

I want you to take a long hard look at what you are doing here in this statement. You are following the classic formula of all false religions. The Bible tells us that our sole source of salvation is Jesus, the 1st thing a false religion does is take away the saving grace of Jesus. You just did the same thing. If people follow you they will believe that they are saved by your theorem and not by Jesus and their salvation will be lost. I know that's not your intention but that's a truth that you can't escape. Its time to turn a way from your theorem and turn towards Jesus my friend. It's a really nice idea and it's beautiful that you care about humanity, I care about humanity too. But I can't save them, you can't save them, each individual has to except the free gift of salvation. You don't have to solve the problem, it's already been solved. If you want to help people plant seeds of Jesus's love by loving them yourself. You are so smart and have made it through so many of life's challenges. Give this one to God and find rest in Jesus. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. He loves you and wants to be on the same team. Trust in God's plan, it's your faith in him that makes amazing things happen, trust that His plan is not only good enough, but better than any plan we can come up with.
Posted by stcornerap 1 year ago
stcornerap
I'm sorry for my last comment to you, it wasn't the most Christ like. I really do care about you. I admit that it's not always easy to display compassion when compassion is needed. I'm a sinner and make mistakes. I hope we can keep talking and bring each other to better understanding. I'd like to help you see where your views conflict with God's so that you can see the difference between your words and God's word. Then if you are sincere about following the Lord you can at least be pointed in the right direction. You have a lot of debates going right now that are not helping your cause. Maybe we can talk a little more in private message and work together on this.
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