The Instigator
linate
Pro (for)
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The Contender
dairygirl4u2c
Con (against)
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supernatural things are likely to occur

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/7/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 424 times Debate No: 114753
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
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linate

Pro

atheists cant show things that look supernatural, but theists can
http://www.debate.org...

first cause per God is merely a philosophical problem and is the most likely scenario
http://www.debate.org...

several eye witnesses at Fatima, where the sun danced in front of seventy thousand eye witnesses
https://forums.catholic.com...

=======
there are credible people in respectable positions of science who believe in exorcisms. there are credible people who say of things that look supernatural.

"Dr. Richard Gallagher is an Ivy League-educated, board-certified psychiatrist who teaches at Columbia University and New York Medical College. He was part of the team that tried to help the woman.
Fighting Satan's minions wasn't part of Gallagher's career plan while he was studying medicine at Yale. He knew about biblical accounts of demonic possession but thought they were an ancient culture's attempt to grapple with mental disorders like epilepsy. He proudly calls himself a "man of science."
Yet today, Gallagher has become something else: the go-to guy for a sprawling network of exorcists in the United States. He says demonic possession is real. He's seen the evidence: victims suddenly speaking perfect Latin; sacred objects flying off shelves; people displaying "hidden knowledge" or secrets about people that they could not have possibly have known."

"Gallagher agrees and has answers for skeptics like Novella.
He says demons won't submit to lab studies or allow themselves to be easily recorded by video equipment. They want to sow doubt, not confirm their existence, he says. Nor will the church compromise the privacy of a person suffering from possession just to provide film to skeptics."

https://www.cnn.com...

more doctors discussing this from a scientific perspective
http://www.newoxfordreview.org...

here is the leading proponent doctor giving an example of a 'true' possession
https://www.sott.net...

=======

evidence of the objective nature of NDEs:

people literally die and come back to tell us of the afterlife and God. it's hard to get much more straightforward than that.

NDEs of atheists
-most atheists meet a divine being and more than half of them come back believing in God. reading the examples at nderf.org seems to make one think almost all of them do. there is some decent arguments that NDEs can be somewhat subjective sometimes, but the fact that athesists dont just see an afterlife without God is significant.
of course NDEs of agnostics and theists involve this stuff too

out of body experiences
-the AWARE studies show people who have cardiac arrest and are resusitated. they die, experience the afterlife, and come back to tell about it. the first study showed someone experiencing both visual and auditory ability while clinically dead through an out of body experience. more studies are being done.
-one peer reviewed study showed someone who died reading numbers on a page while out of body, and that would only be possible otherwise if they guessed the numbers randomly and correctly.
-"In a little over 40 percent of my surveys, NDE"rs observed things that were geographically far from their physical body, that were way outside of any possible physical central awareness. Typically, someone who has an NDE with an out-of-body experience comes back and reports what they saw and heard while floating around, it"s about 98 percent accurate in every way. For example, in one account someone who coded in the operating room had an out-of-body experience where their consciousness traveled to the hospital cafeteria where they saw and heard their family and others talking, completely unaware that they had coded. They were absolutely correct in what they saw."
-there is the testimony of thousands of credible people who have died and told others what they were doing when dead, affirmed by both the dead person and the person observed. often concerning reliable witnesses like doctors. there are books dedicated to giving examples. a common example is pam reynolds, who accurately described the surgical equipment that was used while she was dead, and was said to not have been available while she was awake and not something a normal person would know.

consistency argument
'near death experiences' are consistent globally
http://www.debate.org...
-the near death experience happens to everyone in very similar ways. this even happens to people who have never heard of the phenomenon and to kids. to suggest that there is a story embedded in our brain is far fetched.

seems more real than real
"we ask that as a very direct survey question: What do you currently believe about the reality of your experience? And of about 590 NDE responders, 95 percent say the experience was definitely real with the other options being probably real, probably not real, and definitely not real. So among those that have these experiences, virtually everybody knows that it was a real thing. It"s just much harder to believe for those of us who have never had one. Seeing is believing. If you don"t personally have a near-death experience, which is again a blessing"obviously these people nearly died"it"s hard to understand these unearthly experiences."

non-hallucinatory
-there is nothing that reproduces the NDE and the closest drug that can like ketamine you can draw marked differences between that and the authentic experience. mostly by noting most ketamine and drug induced experiences are random, but NDEs again are consistent.

here is a load of scientific evidence produced from NDEs:
https://www.near-death.com...
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Con

ya dat rite
Debate Round No. 2
linate

Pro

ya dat rite
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Masterful 2 months ago
Masterful
This is an argument based on he said/she said. There is not actual proof of the supernatural here.

Supernatural is a term used to describe things that don't exist. If you believe in ghosts and miracles then you're dumb as f. Wake up spazzy boys.
Posted by 3dogsandaguy 2 months ago
3dogsandaguy
I can use links too! https://whywontgodhealamputees.com...
Posted by Murphy_The_Blobfish 2 months ago
Murphy_The_Blobfish
Grammar....
Posted by 3dogsandaguy 2 months ago
3dogsandaguy
Just so everyone knows, you can basically buy a degree. Also you can be a doctor of something and still be an idiot/gullible.
Posted by Moreno2 2 months ago
Moreno2
Just seems too extreme and that he isnt willing to debate, so yea, nope
Posted by Moreno2 2 months ago
Moreno2
Thanks for answering my question Thoht. I don think im gonna challenge this though haha
Posted by Thoht 2 months ago
Thoht
I never thought I'd see the day a religious person refused to debate others while on a debating platform.
Posted by CatalyticConvertersRule 2 months ago
CatalyticConvertersRule
Very interesting topic and information regarding the "supernatural" - or however one wants to refer to it. I would love to find out what is taking people in the CanAm Missing 411 series... Now THAT... can definitely be supernatural. That is the most evil issue which is actually growing right now - all over the world. With that ridiculous waste of Satanic money called CERN opening, and that tunnel in Switzerland etc., humans are trying to speed up the process!!! Ridiculous. What was it? 1/3rd of the Fallen Angels were sent to earth? THIS is hell, IMO. There is nothing on this prison planet/jew-controlled earth that does NOT revolve around that goddam $ symbol and advertising; other than nature. And playing with nature doesn't get the bills paid! I don't know. It seems to me as if there are more evil things going on than great things. Anyone who has listened to David Paulides' Missing 411 series would be a fool not to consider the paranormal/supernatural after hearing his stories... Absolutely incredible and evil examples of supernatural and evil.. If we could SEE the hidden, fallen angels, portals, etc., we would probably shiit our pants. Those women who say that they were raped by these things - ewwww. That's gross. And then the implants. Man thinks he knows everything due to science!!!!!!!! They are SADLY, mistaken!! There are so many secrets that our own government is hiding from us, it's sickening. Gave a nice debagd
Posted by linate 2 months ago
linate
i would love for you guys to go to the forum to debate this issue. i think all you will be able to show is that if you want to be a skeptic, it's possible. but i don't think you will be able to show it's the best position to take.
http://www.debate.org...

i made the debate impossible to accept because the one on one debates always get screwed up by gliches and i wanted to make bunch of my favorite debates 'official' in my profile and such.
Posted by Thoht 2 months ago
Thoht
Moreno2, great question....

I'd begin by tearing down his NDE point. The link he's cited disproves out of body experiences, which would be supernatural. There's nothing supernatural about hallucinating (dreaming) of the afterlife. There's nothing to verify that the 1 person of the entire study that could verify real events happened didn't simply guess correctly or didn't converse with the person and stage the events prior.

This is not science. It is pseudo science at its worst.

Stating God is the most likely scenario is false.

There are so many non-starters here. What a tangled web we weave.
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