The Instigator
amdonica
Con (against)
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The Contender
PDavis
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

support for the American downfall

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/9/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 626 times Debate No: 10395
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (1)

 

amdonica

Con

why is it that the American people are sitting blind, allowing our nation to be destroyed. the obama administration's spending is ridiculous, and the health care reform they are trying to ram down our throats will only make things worse. don't get me wrong, something needs to be done with the health care industry, but allowing the government to take it over will not solve anything. since when is the government out to help anyone except themselves. i honestly don't understand why people are letting this happen. do we really want to be a socialist country, later leading to a communist nation. no, this isn't some conservative rampage, i'm just tired of obama and his pets, listen to special interest groups instead of the American people who gave him his job!
PDavis

Pro

1. The Obama administration's spending is actually saving thousands of jobs, spending money isn't bad. I realize that I make no argument to back this up, but neither do you. And debating the spending is an issue to be discussed all on its own.
2. The government is not taking over the health care industry, that is simply false. Just because you see someone on TV say something doesn't mean its true. Once again if you want to go into the actual facts and arguments about this, then that's a debate of its own. Also if you agree that something needs to be done about health care, but don't like the proposed reform, then you should suggest some other reform, instead of just complaining.
3. The government is not out to "help themselves". That is just stupid. The existence of corruption within the government does not mean that every single person in it is greedy and selfish. The primary reason that people go into politics is to help people, not to achieve personal power. Also, how would this health care reform even benefit Obama and all of the congressman exactly?
4. Having public programs does not make America socialist. Nor is there any reason whatsoever, besides paranoia, to believe that this would lead communism. Not a single person in congress has the goal of turning America into a socialist or communist nation. Also, there is nothing evil about communism, lets not try to resurrect McCarthyism. It is a system designed to try to help people, its just that it doesn't work in practice on a large scale.
5. The majority of the American people are in favor of the health care reform. If your argument is that the government should do what Americans want, then you should be attacking the people blocking the reform.
Conclusion: You make absolutely no argument as to why what the Obama administration is doing is bad, only that it is. You need to stop watching Fox News.
Debate Round No. 1
amdonica

Con

My action to stop watching fox news would not put an end to the corruption in washington. I agree, spending money isn't a bad thing. But having a president who has spent more money in his first year than most presidents have spent in their entire term, isn't a good thing. I'm not against Obama, just his policies. It doesn't matter what news station you watch or what you read, the government is tempting to overhaul the health care industry. When the president is more interested in listening to special interest groups like seiu and acorn than the American people, the nation is in trouble. Only about 40% of people support Obamacare, and that is from a liberal poll. Hilarycare had more support in the 90's and the congress basically ignored the proposal. By their actions, most of the members of congress are implying that we aren't smart enough to make our own decisions, and this is very insulting. So therefore most of them won't listen to anything that opposes the proposed Obamacare. The republicans proposed a bill and the democrats ignored it, so much for being fair. I'm not saying it was perfect, but they shouldn't have the attitude that they are the only smart ones to come up with anything. Since when does the government help people with the sole purpose of helping? There is always something in it for them. That is exactly what they are doing again. The more the American people sit silent, the more freedom we lose because silence implies acceptance. Not to achieve personal power? Seriously? Really? This nation has come to the point of a power struggle. Abraham Lincoln set out to help people, Bush, and Obama, not so much. if they were public programs that would be fine, but they aren't, they are social, which, if given enough power, leads to socialism. You cannot tell me that the extremely far left liberals have no intent of giving the government complete control, which is communism. Communism has never in the history of life ever been a good thing. It requires everyone to live an equal lifestyle. Equal opportunities for everyone is a right as a human being. I'm sorry but I'm not willing to work my butt off and put myself through med school and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just so they people who abuse the system can sit on their butt and receive government aid.
PDavis

Pro

1. You still don't make any argument why the amount of money that is being spent is bad. I say that it is actually very beneficial. Almost all economists and history show that deficit spending is a very effective strategy to help end recessions.
2. I admit that I had not looked at the poll numbers in a few months, and it looks like they have changed some. But the numbers in support range from roughly 38% to 47%, and the numbers against from 49% to 56%. This is far from the American people overwhelmingly opposing the health care legislation. I would also argue that it is not politicians responsibility to do whatever the poll numbers say at that time, but to do whatever they believe is best for the country and is most moral (this is a question that goes back to the founding of the country, and would make a great debate on its own). And until you can point out specific problems with the legislation then there is no reason to assume that it is bad and should not be passed.
3. You never answered the question as to how Obama/congress' policies benefit the politicians. If they don't benefit the politicians, then how can the policies be selfishly motivated? I can appreciate being cynical, but if you really believe that every single politician only cares about themselves and never does anything to help the country, then I would say you're more in the realm of paranoia.
4. Unless by "far left liberals" you mean the most extreme 3% of the population, then no, liberals have no intent of giving the government complete control (note* no-one in congress is in this 3%). If that is what you thought, then I am happy to be the one to let you know that you have nothing to worry about. No one in congress is attempting to make the US a communist nation.
5. Social programs are necessary. Everyone in the country doesn't have equal opportunity. You've had to work really hard to put yourself through med school, while someone from a wealthier family may have all of their school paid for. Not to mention people with physical and mental handicaps which prevent them from having well paying jobs. Additionally, your belief that people will "abuse the system can sit on their butt and receive government aid" is unfounded. People don't use government aid to get by simply because they are lazy (except for a few very rare and extreme cases where mistakes were made). This is because people aren't given enough money to live comfortably, and the system is set up so that only people with legitimate reason are supposed to get welfare.

We still haven't actually gone into any specific merits or problems with the policies, and you can't really arrive at an informed decision without doing this. If you would like to debate each of these issues more specifically I would love to. Until then, this really isn't anything more than complaining.
Debate Round No. 2
amdonica

Con

amdonica forfeited this round.
PDavis

Pro

PDavis forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
amdonicaPDavisTied
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: FAIL DEBATE, as both sides dropped out... (checking the voting period debates, from Least To Most votes. By giving this one, it won't be prioritized in the system anymore.)