The Instigator
HelloKitty
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TheCoolestPersonEver
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

the Father ,The Son,And the Holy Spirit are One

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/13/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 621 times Debate No: 22823
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

HelloKitty

Pro

read carefully...it clearly states they are all one. not 3 different persons.
John 14
Jesus Comforts His Disciples
1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going."
Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 "If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"

23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

"Come now; let us leave.
TheCoolestPersonEver

Con

Although you make reference to Jesus and God in each verse you provided, they all suggest "Jesus" and "God" as two separate beings. For example, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." This suggests "Father" and "me/I" are separate. It indicates Jesus could just be a figurative "entrance" to God. How could it mean Jesus and God are the same?

The only verse that comes close to saying straight up that the two are one is "don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?..." But again, how is this saying God and Jesus are one? When one becomes a Christian, they Holy Spirit is said to be "in them." This doesn't mean Christians literally are the Holy Spirit. In the same way, how do you know for sure "I am in the Father" or "the Father is in me" doesn't mean the same thing. As a matter of fact, you give a verse with Jesus stating "the Father is greater than I." Doesn't this suggest the two are not one? If one is greater than the other, how can they be the same?

As for Jesus and the Holy Spirit, one of the verses you give states "but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." This appears to make no suggestion as to the oneness between the Father, Son, and Spirit. Please explain.

(Side note) First of all, I'd like to make clear to you that I agree with your side of the argument, as I am a Christian who believes in the trinity. I simply want to see what someone else has to offer as strong evidence. I truly wish you well in providing excellent proof on your side. God bless you! :-)
Debate Round No. 1
HelloKitty

Pro

alright good luck my friend! and God bless you to!

He's telling philip how he can say for the father to show himself when it is jesus all along..{Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?}

when his resurrection occurs no one believes that it is really him…
Jesus Appears to Thomas..(John 20:24-30)
24 Now Thomas , one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"

But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here;and look at my hands. Reach your hand here and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" **{Thomas states he is the Lord HIS God but yet he know it is jesus because he has proved to him}****

*** 31 But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life through his name.{ONCE again clearly states Jesus is Christ,the son of god he says it there in plain text …no hidden meaning its right there}

as for the holy spirit..

John 14:16-18

And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [and this word in Greek means: another of the same kind] Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

This is from Jesus' "fare well" discourse. And he tells his disciples that he will send another one to 'replace' him when he will be no longer physically among them. And it is no stranger. He already lives WITH them (He is Jesus - that is my interpretation of it and this is consistent with all I know from the Bible) and then will soon be in them (the Holy Spirit). And indeed in the last sentence he says "I will come to you". He is speaking of himself and the Spirit as having one identity.
TheCoolestPersonEver

Con

But Jesus states "I am in the Father" and "the Father is in me." Couldn't this prove they're separate? If you're "in" someone, how can you also be that person?

Looking at the verse where Thomas states "my Lord and my God," couldn't his remark also be a form of thanks to God that Jesus is indeed alive rather than Thomas calling Jesus "God"?

You point out how a text declares Jesus as the "Son of God." How is "the Son of God" the same as God Himself? How do scriptures and prophesies within the bible define the Son of God (the Messiah) spiritually? Do they say the Son of God literally is God?

If the Holy Spirit is Jesus, why doesn't Jesus just say "I will be in you." Why would He refer to Himself in third person? As for the "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you," couldn't Jesus be speaking figuratively? In a way "I will come to you" could mean He will send one to guide them. That doesn't necessarily mean the "one" He sends will be the same divinity as Him.
Debate Round No. 2
HelloKitty

Pro

HelloKitty forfeited this round.
TheCoolestPersonEver

Con

TheCoolestPersonEver forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
HelloKitty

Pro

HelloKitty forfeited this round.
TheCoolestPersonEver

Con

TheCoolestPersonEver forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by HelloKitty 5 years ago
HelloKitty
that they are indeed all one.... not separate as people think they are
Posted by KILLUMINATI 5 years ago
KILLUMINATI
what are you arguing what is you want to debate
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