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the ISA are the real bad guys in the Killzone universe.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 3/16/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,548 times Debate No: 71816
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I am looking to debate about the popular Killzone video game series. It is my belief as well as the belief of several other fans that the ISA ( despite being the games protagonists ) are the real bad guys. Before you accept the debate please except the following terms:

1. The debate involves the entire history of the Killzone universe not just the events that take place during the games themselves.

2. Government type does not make someone "good or bad"

3. The mere red color of the helghast uniform dosent make them bad and the blue color of the ISA uniform dosent make them good.

4.Jordan Stahl, Stahl arms and the Black Hand terrorist group are not counted as the Helghast. We are talking about the government, military and people of the Helghan Empire.

With those accepted I will begin my arguments.

1. The History of the Helghast before Killzone 1

After World War 3, most of Earth was left uninhabitable by nuclear war. Several groups set out to space in search of livable planets. One such group, the Helghan Corp. Found 2 planets far away from Earth. One of the planers was like earth and rich with life and oceans. The other was a chemical wasteland of sorts with a swampy hostile environment. The first planet was named Vekta after the president of the Helghan Corp. At the time. The other was named Helghan after the corporation. The company quickly settled the planet Vekta. It became a government and an Empire. The people became known as the Helghast. The Helghast became the intergalacticly excepted legal owners of the planet. Helghan became the industrial and waste planet. After hundreds of years however the Helgahst needed more money in order to support the growing population And industry. They imposed a tax on anyone flying space craft through helghast territory. Unwilling to pay the legaly required tax, and desiring territory and living space, earth's UCN ( without even asking for a peaceful deal with the Helghan Empire first ) sent it's military, The ISA to conquer Vekta. The Helghast were taken by compleat surprise and much of the civilian population was massacred. The Helghast lost the war for Vekta and we're forced by the ISA to go and live on the toxic planet Helghan.
meanwhile the ISA moved in its own civilians and claimed Vekta as its own planet.

2. Events of Killzone 1

by the time killzone 1 began the Helghast had been so badly poisoned by the toxins on Helghan that very few Helghans could even live without a breathing device. Most Helghan had been so badly exposed while working to survive that they had lost their hair and grey skin. The red eyed gas masks and work helmets made them look evil and scary however ( thanks to the ISA ) this was required for survival. Eventually the helghast grew an extream desire for a strong, powerful, militaristic government. They found just the man to lead that government. Scholar Visari became an inspiration of hope and pushed the importance of the Workers and the Military. Finally he decided that it was time for the Helghast to take back Vekta before the situation worsened. The invasion is often used by ISA supporters like my opponent will be to call the Helghast
( abreviated as HGH ) evil. However this invasion was actually an attempt to retake what was rightfully theirs and Visari had every right to try it. How would you like it if another group of humans forced you to leave earth after killing your family and then moved you to a planet with toxic air and a swampy environment.

3. Events of killzone 2

After the re invasion of Vekta by the HGH failed the ISA attacked Helghan directly with massive bombings and chemical attacks. They then invaded the Capital city and assassinated Visari. So many civilians and soldiers of the HGH were killed and the city was so damaged that the Helghast had to nuke their own city in order to halt the ISA advance deeper into the capital.

4. Killzone 3

By this time the HGH senate had taken power and apointed admiral Orlock ( the military leader ) the new Emporer. A corrupt official ( Jorhan Stahl ) the leader of Stahl Arms. Began using chemical weapons in combat and planned the to use the chemicals on Earth. However the main government was compleatly unaware of this. Upon becoming aware of the lies the HGH Emporer ordered Stahls arrest for treason and war crimes but Stahl killed him before he could be captured. The ISA the proceed to carelessly launch a nuclear weapon at stahls compleatly IMMOBIAL cruiser. This caused the destruction of the planet Helghan and the deaths of billions of civilians.

5. Killzone 4 Shadow Fall

The HGH under Empress Visari ( the original Visari's Daughter )
were now in a state of near collapse invasion into Vekta was attempted. The ISA allowed for the Helghast to settle a portion of the planet and the helghast ( enraged over the loss of life by the ISA ) conqurered ruthlessly. They however never exceed the boundarys set by the ISA government. However the ISA immediately deployed it's corrupt VSA to several now HGH controlled zones. These VSA agents caused sever paranoia amongst Vektan citizens that the HGH were evil and pumped the system with propaganda. As a result a cold war of sorts began. The VSA director in particular was a corrupted psychopath who wished to utilize bio weapons to kill everyone on the HGH side of Vekta. the ISA supported this and even housed the reserch facilities on their space cruisers. The VSA even went as far as to blow up a Helghan landmark.

It is obvious that the Helghast are the true good guys here and the ISA are evil war criminals.

Vote Pro!


I accept this debate. I will be arguing against my opponent's stance on the resolution.

When my opponent says "bad" in this case, I have to assume he means "evil".

"It is obvious that the Helghast are the true good guys here and the ISA are evil war criminals."

The definition of "evil" is as follows:

Profoundly immoral and malevolent.

Pro seems to assume that the situation in the "Killzone" universe is necessarily one of a "good" side conflicting with a "bad" side. I don't believe in such a model and I do not support the ISA or the Helghan Empire. I merely am arguing against the resolution, or in other words, the title.

Why assume this is the case? Why assume any side is "good" or "evil" in any conflict? "Good" is a label, just like "evil" is a label. "Good" and "evil" have no scientifically defined parameters, have no objective units of measurement, and vary according to different people. In other words, they are purely subjective.

Both "good" and "evil" are abstract concepts.

Based on Pro's argument, I have to assume that he considers the actions taken against the Helghan Empire's civilian populace and military immoral.

Let's take the destruction of the planet Helghan, for example.

"This caused the destruction of the planet Helghan and the deaths of billions of civilians."

The body of the ISA that carried out the nuclear launch felt that the launching of that nuclear weapon at that particular cruiser was acceptable. What objectively discounts the ISA's code of morality, assuming it has one? Nothing, of course. If the ISA were to collectively deem that action moral, my opponent's viewpoint would conflict with that of more than one person- in fact, it would conflict with the viewpoints of everyone in the ISA.

And so what if my opponent's moral code were "outnumbered", so to speak?

It wouldn't matter. To claim that it would would be to commit the ad populum fallacy.

Again, all I have to do according to the title is argue that the ISA are not the "bad guys".

To be objectively "bad", the ISA would have to violate a code of morality described by the following:

1. Independent of personal belief
2. Clearly defined; with clear parameters

All current scientific knowledge has not reveal an objective code of morality or any scientific measure for morality.

Thus, the "labels" and "evil" and the way they are applied in this instance are unsubstantiated by evidence, as they are indefinite.

It is obvious that "evil" or "bad guy" in this case is a mere epithet and, rather than an indicator of objective truth, an indicator of the opinion of one person- my opponent. Calling the ISA "evil" is comparable to calling flowers "beautiful" or calling a person "fat". "Evil", "fat", and "beautiful" are not fixed and objective.

There is no objective dichotomy between "good" and "evil" here.

Thus, the ISA is not "evil".

Oxford Pocket Dictionary of English
Debate Round No. 1


emporer1 forfeited this round.


My opponent has forfeited. I reiterate all above arguments.
Debate Round No. 2


emporer1 forfeited this round.


Extend all above arguments. My opponent has not yet addressed my argument, and has forfeited two rounds by now.
Debate Round No. 3


emporer1 forfeited this round.


debate_power forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


emporer1 forfeited this round.


debate_power forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by debate_power 3 years ago
Well, based on my research, I think I understand it relatively well.
Posted by RXR 3 years ago
This will be a tough debate because killzone is not a famous franchise. Great game, btw but you will have a hard time finding an oppenent.
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