The Instigator
vegard95
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
brontoraptor
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

the abrahamic religions corrupts and destroys society, if there is a god, he is evil

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 588 times Debate No: 92571
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
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vegard95

Pro

the abrahamic religions. the jew,the christian, the muslim

three fools that praise a fear mongering god. a god that applauds genocide and sees women as cattle. their holy men spreading the fear of god into their believers.

God is evil,corrupts society,he is big brother.
you are not even allowed to have you own free will because "god has a plan for us all"
god has chosen a path for you, if you do his will and pray he will see you well in heaven.

where is your god? was god watching as josef fritzl molested his poor daughter while their children born of incest watched their mother being raped, how many times did you think she pray to god? how many times did he answer? there was not a god who rescued her, it was human beings.

God is a racist, God is a misogynist, God is a xenophobe, God is a warmonger, God is a tyrant, God is unjust, God is egocentric, God is a psychopath. God is the exact opposite of a politically correct being.
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:

"three fools that praise a fear mongering god. a god that applauds genocide and sees women as cattle. their holy men spreading the fear of god into their believers."

Bill Maher (Atheist) on Islam vs Christianity


*

Christianity does not serve the same God as Islam. Christianity declares god came to Earth in the form of Jesus Christ. Islam rejects Jesus Christ, per the Quran, and adheres to Muhammed's god.

*

POINT 1

Pro:

-"their holy men spreading the fear of god into their believers."

Bible Verses on fear (2 minute video)


-

“For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.”

(2 Timothy 1:7)

“Humble yourselves, then, under God’s mighty hand, so that he will lift you up in his own good time. Leave all your worries with him, because he cares for you.”

(Peter 5:6-7)

*

POINT 2

Pro:

-"a god that sees women as cattle."

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.

Ephesians 5:28

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Colossians 3:19

Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.

Proverbs 1:8

Hear, my son, your father’s instruction, and forsake not your mother’s teaching,

Proverbs 18:22

He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD

"Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this life that God has given you under the sun, all of your days. For this is your lot in life." Ecclesiastes 9:9

"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

"Be completely humble and gentle; Be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace." Ephesians 4:2-3

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." Ephesians 4:32

*

POINT 3

Pro:

"God is a racist."

"God is an xenophobe."

(Revelation 7:9)

(Speaking of Heaven)

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language.

(Leviticus 19:34)

The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

*

POINT 4

Pro:

"God is unjust."

(Hebrews 6:10)

God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.

*

POINT 5

Pro:

"God is egocentric."

(John 3:14)

Now that I, your Lord, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet.

(Matthew 20:28)

Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

(Isaiah 53:3)

(Speaking of Christ)

He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

*

POINT 6

Pro:

"God is the exact opposite of a politically correct being."

Political correctness is what happens when you twist the truth, omit the truth, embelish the truth, or avoid the truth at all costs to spare feelings that you probably won't spare no matter how you speak. God doesn't have time for political correctness because it demands you to lie, fulfill the bigotry of low expectations, or pat heads that have earned no pat.

Political correctness looks like this:

(Short video-Political Correctness)

Debate Round No. 1
vegard95

Pro

christians,muslims and jews are the sons of abraham. at the core it is the same god. islam does not reject jesus teachings, as he is one of their prophets.

and to state such a bigot of a source as bill maher, kinda proves my point.

point 1:

The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man
Ecclesiastes 12:13

leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Ezekiel 30:13
'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'I will destroy the idols and put an end to the images in Memphis. No longer will there be a prince in Egypt, and I will spread fear throughout the land.

saying that god will punish you for not praising his name. not following his commandments,certain times at the threat of death is fear mongering.
pope Benedict XVI saying that aids is bad but not as bad as condoms is fear mongering.
the catholic church saying that a stillborn child continues his afterlife in limbo is also fear mongering.

point 2
peter 1
Peter orders all wives to be "in subjection" to their husbands. 3:1

ephesians:
Wives must submit to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24

ezekiel:
"Woe to the woman that sew pillows ... Behold, I am against your pillows." (God likes neither woman nor pillows.) 13:18-21

deteronomy
If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her. 22:28-29

leviticus"
Only unblemished males are to be killed and offered to God. Females don't even make good burnt offerings. 1:3, 10

think thats enough to prove my point

point 3:

lets start with King David.
"And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under the axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem." (II Samuel 12:31)

lets continue with israelites being the chosen race

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter 2:9

Chapter 25 of the book of Numbers (verses 1-13) tells of when the Israelis began to inter-marry (it uses the term "commit whoredom") with the Moabites, a neighbouring ethnic group with a different religion. This provoked the rage of God who commanded Moses to "hang them". One man had married a "Midianitish". An Israeli, Phinehas killed both of them with a javelin. God praises him for this and declares he "hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel." He then rewards him with a "covenant of peace" and the covenant of everlasting priesthood." Moral of the story, God doesn"t want you to mix with people other you"re own.

point 4:

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus says that most people will not follow him and be saved. If most people are doomed to not find this narrow path and enter through the small gate, then the Christian God cannot be just in a secular sense. Because it is clear that it is the design of human beings that is really at fault here. None of us were in the garden, but we still pay the price. God didn't create us strong enough to resist the original temptation, and he didn't leave most of us strong enough to overcome the debt of our ancestors. There is no way this God can be just in any normal sense of the world. Sure, you could bludgeon the conversation to death by claiming whatever God does is good by definition, but that is a theological argument, not a rational one. Most Christians hope for a God who is actually good by our standards.

I see no possible way of reading the Christian scriptures that allows for its God to be good, given the rigged nature of the game as illustrated by Jesus. Most people will not be saved.

point 5:

The behaviors and attitudes of the god of the Bible are entirely deplorable. The indifference of the elder gods from Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos that inflicts so much suffering in those tales is still more moral than the toddler-like tantrums thrown by Yahweh

point 6:

oh u mean the lies,twisted truth and bigotry of god?
Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Jeremiah 4:10

Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
brontoraptor

Con

"Christians,muslims and jews are the sons of abraham. at the core it is the same god. islam does not reject jesus teachings, as he is one of their prophets."

It warned us once:

(Romans 9:7)

"Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."

(Galations 4:28)

Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Why?

(Genesis 17:19)

Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

(Genesis 17:21)

But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.

Why not Ishmael, the father of Islam?

(Genesis 16:12)

He will be a wild donkey of a man, and his seed, his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

He was rejected because he was like a violent animal.

*

He warned us twice:

Here is the inscription of the Islamic Dome of the Rock.

"Far be it removed from Allah's transcendent majesty that He should have a son."

www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/DoTR.html

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God. Such a person is the Antichrist, denying the Father and the Son.

2 Thessalonians 2:4

(The spirit of antichrist)

He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

"Allah" is set up in that exact spot.

In the Bible (Book of Revelation), it tells us Antichrist's followers will bow to a graven image.

They do.(Video proof)


They do. (Pictures)


Antichrist's followers behead Christians.




They get staryed by a great antichrist prophet.

Muhammed rejected Jesus as Christ like a drumbeat in his Quran, even claiming he got his revelation from a demon and being accused of demon possession as a child.


Any questions? They aren't worshipping the same god or anything close.

*

Pro:

The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man

Ecclesiastes 12:13

I feared and feared and respected my father, a man who stormed the beaches of Omaha in WWII. He was in no way evil, and I loved him for it.

*

Con:

leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.

Is it okay to lie with a dog or a child? Why not?

*

Con:

saying that god will punish you for not praising his name. not following his commandments is fear mongering.

So all atheists who punish their children are fear mongering.

*

Con:

Wives must submit to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife."

Chloe8 (atheist) from this forum proposed this same idea to me. I asked her what kind of man she was attracted to. She said a man who is strong, a leader, and can lead their family. I laughed on that one.

*

Con:

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."

And now 1/3 of the world is under this construct.

*

Con:

"Moabites"

The same Moabites that tried to kill them and were hellbent on their destruction through espionage?

*

Con:

It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus says that most people will not follow him and be saved. If most people are doomed to not find this narrow path and enter through the small gate, then the Christian God cannot be just in a secular sense.

Oh? So you reject Him, but want Him to make you His against your own free will...

*

Con:

I see no possible way of reading the Christian scriptures that allows for its God to be good, given the rigged nature of the game as illustrated by Jesus. Most people will not be saved.

So...God should make you be His against your own free will.

*

Con:

"toddler-like tantrums thrown by Yahweh."

Citation needed.

*

Con:

oh u mean the lies,twisted truth and bigotry of god?

Kings 22:23

Con:

"Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee."

Which we are told doesn't happen until one has taken the stance of accepting the lie. In other words. He gives up on them because of their own rejection, and as a gentleman, walks away.

2 Thessalonians 2:9

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie.
Debate Round No. 2
vegard95

Pro

your first argument.
the only thing you have done by these arguments are ridiciuling yourself. im embarassed how you in the one moment says the the christian god is a peace loving god, then u continue in ur argument by posing muslim beheadings and calling allah the antichrist. do you think us christians are any better? have you forgotten the Srebrenica massacre.have u forgotten how christians fundamentalists shoot up abortion clinics that support women making their own choices and taking control over their own body.

u laugh at her argument. while your argument is just as ridiculous? you see god as strong leader? really?

god is jealous. wanting adulterers put to death is not strength. it is weakness
a god is not a strong leader of a family? what did he do with his first son that started asking? that did oppose him instead of trying to reconcile with him?

cast him out and banish him to hell

what happened to his son and daughter adam an eve? those who got cast out of eden for eating his favorite apple. i

he seeks death and punishment on those who oppose him, on those who left him. the so called apostates
he is not even impressive as a Semitic warlord, less as a god

And now 1/3 of the world is under this construct.
yes, they are called third world countries.

espionage? is this theory supposed to defend genocide?

no i dont want to be under god. i cast him away as nothing serious. when i die i will be turned to ash and that will it, that will be the end of my existence.

childlike tantrums

I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon them."
ezekiel 25:17

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
Hosea 13:16

Deuteronomy 20:16-17

But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded,

gods vengeance is abit harsh, dont u think?

yea and that last point, i dont see how condemning apostates to death is being a "gentleman"
brontoraptor

Con

"espionage? is this theory supposed to defend genocide?"

How else to you defeat an enemy that keeps infiltrating you by pretending to be you and is wiping you out? The same way you destroy cancer. If aliens attacked planet Earth, do we end all of them or leave survivers....

*

"cast him out and banish him to hell."

No one burns in a place called Hell forever and ever and ever as some non theologically based people think. It's a gagan idea that many have just accepted.



*

have you forgotten the Srebrenica massacre.have u forgotten how christians fundamentalists shoot up abortion clinics that support women making their own choices and taking control over their own body.

Muslims kill each other and bring violence to themselves and each other in mass constantly, caused by the nature of the commands in the Quran. (Which kind of proves my earlier point.)

*

"do you think us christians are any better?"

So you are a Christian according to yourself, who voluntarily serves a god you believe is evil...

*

People doing crazy things doesn't make God anything. Are you bad if your son stabs someone by his own free will?

Eleven deaths occurred in abortion clinics in the United States since 1990.


450 of 452 suicide bombers in 2015 were Islamic.

*

"I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon them."ezekiel 25:17

- The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ezekiel%2025%3A17

So you are angry that God protects those who protect children, practice charity and good will, and that he rebuttals towards those who poison and kill people...

*

what happened to his son and daughter adam an eve? those who got cast out of eden for eating his favorite apple.

Or for rejecting Him and turning to Satan...

*

"And now 1/3 of the world is under this construct.

yes, they are called third world countries."

The United States has the most Christians.

*

"Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." Hosea 13:16

It's a prophecy of what is to come. They rejected God, He exited from the protection role, and was not present to protect them from their enemies. It's called omniscience. They reject you, you step aside and tell them what you know is going to happen without your protection.

*

"But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded."

Which were all groups who were violent warmongers. God knew they would try to kill them. By omniscience, it was self defense.

*

And Atheism doesn't have the high ground on the issue. Atheism is responsible for 250 million deaths just this century, more than all religions combined.

Atheists are quick to point out that throughout history large numbers of people were killed in the name of Religion; but they fail to mention the countless millions who were killed by leaders who worshipped themselves or by militant atheist-Communists who were driven by a hatred for God and Religion.














Debate Round No. 3
vegard95

Pro

it is just not right to wipe out an entire species and race. there is no possible way to justify the slaughter of children by the actions of their fathers, people simply change in due time. genocide can not be defended in any way possible. i find it quite ironic with you saying that you preach the word of peacefull god and love for you fellow man,and then you go on defending genoice.

jesus said that non believers will burn in an everlasting hell. and do you really think it makes a difference if the victim is tortured 1000 years or an eternity?

of recorded history, about 894 million people have died in religious wars. in the taiping rebellion,caused by a man thinking he was the brother of jesus, a 100 million people died. the spanish/portugese conquest of america 138 million died. in ww2 a war started by a catholic austrian strongly supported by the catholic church, 85 million people died in that war.

between 800-900 million people have died in religious wars.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

i simply do not understand how u can stand here and defend genocide. i understand clearer and clearer day by day that it is the people who practise it, apologizers like you.defending genocide. supporting god by whatever he may command, however immoral they seem.

can you learn to think for yourself? do you not see that this is wrong, god is wrong,religion is wrong,religious killings are wrong. you are wrong

what you stand by is immoral, it is apphauling.

these are communist regimes, governed by evil people. there are evil people, atheist and religous.

yes suicide bombings, religious suicide. muslims, ur brothers, followers of abraham. i do not find what you preach any better! any less disgusting!

yes united states have the most religious people.

look whats happening to it?
drifting further and further into ignorance and anti-semitism, into hate.

what you preach, what man you are. if you really stand by this, you are a disgusting human being.
im not religious person. i do not believe in a god, and certainly not a god one.
if u seek to banish me too hell go ahead. i believe i will find my companionship alot more intresting
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:
"it is just not right to wipe out an entire species and race..."


Those surrounding the Israelites were on the constant attack and barbaric. During WWII, the U.S. chose to drop 2 atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki which led to the end of the bloodiest war in world history with a death toll of over 60 million. The attack was by a nation who had been bombed and attacked and had to defend itself against a Nazi/Japanese/Italian coalition bent on literally conquering the world. If you launch arrows and fire catapults in an open assault you have no way of knowing who is being killed. It's a non sequitor.




*
Pro:
"If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her." 22:28-29


Rape:
-The definition varies drastically historically and culturally. Originally, rape had no sexual connotation and is still used in other contexts in English. In Roman law, it or raptus was classified as a form of crimen vis, "crime of assault". Raptus described the abduction of a woman against the will of the man under whose authority she lived, and sexual intercourse was not a necessary element.


Sixty years ago, in some states, a white woman having consensual sex with a black man was considered rape.


In the case of Germany, penetration is not required for the act to be defined as rape.




And finally, God didn't command any sexual command. He judged it and executed a punishment to a man caught with a woman he was not married to by being unable to divorce her when and only if her father willingly gave her up to be his wife (because women had no ability to take care of themselves at this point in history), and the man was penalized and punished.


It's the equivalent of an atheist claiming a judge in a court case is a condoner of negative sexual activity for putting the person in jail...


And if we read the context we get a completely different dimension to the story.


(Deuteronomy 22:25)
"But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, the man who has done this shall die."


(Deuteronomy 22:26)
Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin.


*
Pro:
"can you learn to think for yourself? do you not see that this is wrong, god is wrong,religion is wrong,religious killings are wrong. you are wrong."


I was an Atheist for a long time. It actually is philosophically impossible and makes no sense if you actually think about it philosophically, which is why atheists are uneasy with highly intelligent philosophical theistic debaters.


(William Craig vs Christopher Hitchens video reference)-




Out of the top 10 IQ's on Earth, 8 are openly theist and 6 are openly Christians.




*


Pro:
"ww2 a war started by a catholic austrian strongly supported by the catholic church, 85 million people died in that war."


Hitler became anti-Christian as an adult-


"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion (Islam) too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
-Adolph Hitler
"Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers -already, you see, the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity! -then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism (Islam), that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."
-Adolph Hitler




*
I looked on the site provided by Pro who claimed 800 million people died in religious wars. He gave no time frame, nor did I find any such statistic on the site.




I did a google search on Pro's given number and caim up with zero results. The highest I could find was an article about Islamic killings since 700 AD, but have proven in round 1 that Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham by decleration of God Himself in the book of Genesis in which God rejected the descendents of Ishmael, declaring their violent nature would extend to the end of days. Muslims are the descendents of Ishmael.


Pro blaims the Taiping Revolution on Christianity. Every article I read said the war was started by nontheists killing and persecuting Christians.




Pro:
"if u seek to banish me too hell"


There is no eternal hellfire-like experience as posed by pagans. Nor have I condemned Pro to any such place.
Debate Round No. 4
vegard95

Pro

yes, but they did not wipe out an entire race. it was horrendous act of war, that was deemed a necessary evil. the japanese government was still left standing and the emperor was still the head of the governent. it was something that sent a very clear signal, but it was not a holocaust prosecuting and annhilating an entire race.

yes and ur point?
if a person needs god to tell him that rape is wrong ,then i believe said person should seek help in a mental facility.

i never said being religious make a person stupid. what im saying is that over half of ur defense is are statements from the bible without any actual comment from you.

hitler was a devout christian,saying he did the lords work,stating it clearly in mein kampf. and he was backed by the church
http://www.nobeliefs.com...

im saying through all time. modern atheism is relatively new, even tough atheism was practised some in ancient greece.apostates and blasphemers have been persucated( and still is) for most of history

i have no doubt that there will be people who are atheism in history, but there has always been religion. out of the 107 billion people born throughout human history, there is not actual way of knowing the true of deaths caused by religion.
many sources gives sky high numbers. http://www.truthbeknown.com...

here are also some from the top of my head
The Crusades: 6,000,000
Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
Iraq War: 500,000
US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms by the catholic church: 30,000,000
Spanish Inquisition: 5,000
TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.

the u clearly did not read ur sources right as the leader of the taiping heavenly kingdom was a converted christian, his name was Hong Xiuquan
https://en.wikipedia.org...

ishmael was abrahams son
islam is also an Abrahamic religions,all of them emphasizing and tracing their common origin to the tribal patriarch Abraham

and the things caused by atheism in the past or future is something i will not defend and takes distance from. as it these were disgustins actions caused by human beings

well why does the bible preach it?

Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Mark 9:43, 48-49 "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire"where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." For everyone will be salted with fire."
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:

ishmael was abrahams son-

Who was born to Hagar out of wedlock. God rejected Ishmael and his descendents because he was a violent maniac. God has a name in the Bible, Jehovah. Muhammed came along thousands of years later, created his own religion, claimed he got it from a demon, and his god has no name. Allah simply means god in Arabic. They never call him Jehovah or any name. He has no name...



Pro:

Mark 9:43, 48-49 "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire"where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." For everyone will be salted with fire."

We've already established this point. The person dies. The fire does not. The fire isn't literal either. Jesus spoke in allegories.


www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

They are deleted. They rejected Him. He will not force them to be with Him against their will, so it's the end after judgement.

*

Pro:

"well why does the bible preach it?"

It doesn't.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

*

Pro:

"the u clearly did not read ur sources right as the leader of the taiping heavenly kingdom was a converted christian, his name was Hong Xiuquan."

That's not what I'm reading. Even if Pro was right, it would make the guy a nutjob and have nothing to do with the nature of God. Otherwise, we could blame all terroristic acts by Stalin simply on Atheism.

*

The Crusades: 6,000,000

The Christians were defending Jerusalem from an outside enemy and lost, as the book of Revelation said would happen to give place to the spirit of antichrist for his appointed time to test the saints. Allah sits in the temple at the Temple Mount still today, in the exact spot the Bible said he would be.


Muslim conquests have nothing to do with our God. Islam's god has no name and renounces Christ, by definition not the God of the Bible.

*

Pro:

"there is not actual way of knowing the true of deaths caused by religion."

It's really a false dichotomy to attribute all ancient wars to religion. Take the Crusades. They would have fought each other even if they'd had no religions. They were open enemies in spite of religion. Alexander the Great went on a massive conquering spree. The God of the Bible was not Alexander's inspiration.

*

Pro:

"yes, but they did not wipe out an entire race."

But they killed way more people and were in less direct trouble because the war was not fought in America.

*

Pro:

"hitler was a devout christian,saying he did the lords work,stating it clearly in mein kampf. and he was backed by the church."

Which was for political gain. He began shedding his skin and started renouncing Christianity, got hooked on a accumulation of 85 mind altering drugs all at once, finally acting out in madness, and eventually killing himself.


*

(Christ)

John 15:15

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I have I will make known to you.

*

Come to Jesus

Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by kwagga_la 1 year ago
kwagga_la
@vegard95 Chosen does not automatically signify that they were superior to other nations. The reason stated in the scripture you quote as the evidence says: "are a HOLY PEOPLE..chosen you for HIS TREASURED POSSESSION. Nowhere is it stated in the verse that they were chosen because they were a superior race. Your example does not fit your conclusion that God is a racist who chose Israel just because they were superior in race.
Posted by ErBoy 1 year ago
ErBoy
what are you saying? lol please take off your tinfoil hat and see the real world.
Posted by vegard95 1 year ago
vegard95
@dsjpk5

Isaiah 13:15-18
Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished. Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children.

i think we can all agree on that the murdering of children,rape and mass murder is evil. all because their god deemed it just
Posted by vegard95 1 year ago
vegard95
@kwagga_le
"For you are a people holy to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." Deuteronomy 14:2

this and numerous other occasion where god states that the israelites being the chosen people. also how they seeminlgy are allowed to take slaves from every other nation also states my point
Posted by kwagga_la 1 year ago
kwagga_la
Racist: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
You state God is a racist. Can you provide a reference from the Bible where the Christian God states this?
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
How are you going to establish what is evil?
Posted by I_Wanna_Rawk 1 year ago
I_Wanna_Rawk
I'll accept this debate, however I need some time to put my arguments together fully.
No votes have been placed for this debate.