The Instigator
brokenboy
Pro (for)
Losing
16 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

the best 2 martial arts

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/2/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,307 times Debate No: 12894
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (8)

 

brokenboy

Pro

the first round will not count as part of the debate instead it will be for you to name your best martial art and explain the strengths of the martial art then in round 2 we will start debating

my first pick is Dim Mak (nicknamed death touch)

1) The concept known as Dim Mak traces its history to Traditional Chinese Medicine Acupuncture that can kill using seemingly less than lethal force targeted at specific areas of the body. Dim mak is depicted as a secret body of knowledge with techniques that attack pressure points and meridians, said to incapacitate or sometimes cause immediate or even delayed death to an opponent. some people claim that bruce lee's death was a result from a Dim Mak strike he recived three days before (i dont belive this but that is what they claim). so to summerise this one hit one kill.

the seacond martial art that i have chosen is taekwon-do (itf)

Taekwondo training generally includes a system of blocks, kicks, punches, and open-handed strikes and may also include various take-downs or sweeps, throws, and joint locks. Some taekwondo instructors also incorporate the use of pressure points, known as jiapsul, as well as grabbing self-defense techniques borrowed from other martial arts, such as hapkido and judo. Taekwondo is considerd one of the most adaptive martial arts in the world making the user a tough opponent to beat. The main reason I picked Taekwondo is beacuse of the speed and reaction time according to the fight science records taekwondo has the fastest reaction timing out of any martial arts, according to research a person who as obtained a black belt in itf taekwondo should be able to do a techniques to block an attack before any of the other martial arts nural receptors recive that the attack is coming.

i look forward to hearing what you have to say and what you have chossen as your best 2 martial arts.
Danielle

Con

Many thanks to my opponent for beginning this debate.

1) Commando Krav Maga (CKM) is considered by many experts to be the most evolved and effective hand-to-hand combat system in the world. Founded by a former Elite Commando of the Israeli Special Forces, Commando Krav Maga is the ultimate reality-based system engineered for the most brutal and vicious street confrontations. With its no-nonsense approach and straightforward practical moves, CKM prepares you for the unexpected with techniques that can be utilized effectively under pressure. Krav Maga has a philosophy emphasizing threat neutralization, simultaneous defensive and offensive maneuvers, and aggression.

2) Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is a hybrid system that borrows heavily from several arts, including Wing Chun, boxing, and fencing. Unlike most hybrid systems, it absorbs what is useful while casting off what is useless to arrive at the bare combat essentials. Movements are direct, straightforward, and non-classical. The system works on the use of different 'tools' for different situations. These situations are broken down into ranges (Kicking, Punching, Trapping and Grappling), with techniques flowing smoothly between them. It was named for the concept of interception, or attacking your opponent while he is about to attack.

-- Descriptions from Sources --

- http://www.commandokravmaga.com...
- http://www.nytimes.com...?
- http://en.wikipedia.org...
- http://en.wikipedia.org...

I look forward to my opponent's opening arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
brokenboy

Pro

i am sorry for not submitting links in my earlier argument so here they are
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://tienlung.com...

please note: that in all these sparring matches the practioners are required to hold back.

now i will start stateing the reasons why i think that my martial arts are supirior i will list the 1,2,3 etc so it is easier to identify which statement my opponent is talking about

1) CON: "With its no-nonsense approach and straightforward practical moves" taekwondo is one of the best martial arts to intercept attacks as it is mainly a counter active martial art krav manga's straight forward move would most likley will not be useful useing that stratigy
2) for both of these martial arts grappling dim mak will not be effective beacuse no matter where or how you grapple them they always have a point to push that will either render their opponent useless or result a death for example according to the dim mak charts there is a point you can press in your foot that will stop your heart there is a point on both arms and legs which shuts down the entire nervous and nural system so there are points all over the body
3) although jeet kune do is very fast and a good martial art once again it is straight forward giveing the practioner of taekwondo the advantage also what i failed to mention earlier is that taekwondo and jeetkunedo are very similar the only difference between the two is that taekwondo still uses patterns and they use a little more of the feet also according to General Choi Hong Hi bruce lee trained in taekwondo for a while before going off to make his own martial art
4) quite like jeetkunedo taekwondo is broke up into distances too for example the shortest range to the longest is grapple, elbows and knees, punch/front leg kick, back leg kick/jumping kick, sliding kick/punch, and then safe.
5) according to reports from korea and other places of the world the korean army is the best at hand to hand in versitile places and the main martial art that they study is taekwondo.
6) as krav manga is very strong and a great martial art for killing you said that krav manga uses aggresion well the only problem with incorperateing agression with fighting is that it partially impaires your abiliety to think also it gives dim mak an advantage, beacuse agression triggers adrenelane into your blood stream as a defense mechnisim dim mak users can channel the adrenalne by causeing too much of your adenalene to go into your blood stream which causes over work of muscel and heart, it would be like over doseing 5 times on steroids so you would die a slow and painfull death and would not be able to do anything about it.
7) there were certain facts i forgot to mention in my earlier statement
- taekwondo is the most scientifically proved martial art in the world they use science to get the maximum power and speed out of our movements for example we have incorperated the sine wave into our movements, sine wave is a movement of down up down which has been proven to get the most power out of all movements they use, another example is that they teach that mass times velocity squared equals total power output meaning that in order to acheive the most power it has to be fast and you must have mass behind it and so that is why they kick slightly down ward beacuse it puts all your mass behind it causeing double the power of a jeet kune do kick even though jeet kune do puts their hip into their movements taekwondo puts their hip and body mass

i would like to thank the Lwerd for accepting my challenge
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

== VIDEOS ==

1. Using KM to get out of a situation where you're kneeling at gun point.

2. Using KM to get out of a situation where there's a knife to your throat.

== REBUTTAL ==

1. Krav Maga too is known for its technique in teaching how to intercept and use counter-attacks against the initial instigator [1]. As such, we have no reason to automatically accept that TKD is the better method for counter-attacks considering KM does the same thing, and is considered among the most deadly forms. Additionally, JKD is a type of combat specifically named for the concept of interception (the direct translation reads: "Bruce Lee's Way of the Intercepting Fist") or attacking your opponent while he is about to attack [2]. This means we have yet to see one advantage of TKD over either of my presented methods.

2. Pro writes, "according to the dim mak charts there is a point you can press in your foot that will stop your heart there is a point on both arms and legs which shuts down the entire nervous and nural system so there are points all over the body." Using JKD, we can just as easily apply this concept. JKD incorporates effective moves from every system in order to use the best techniques to defeat an opponent. For instance, Thailands's Muay Thai is infamous for teaching the eights point of contact a.k.a. the eight places you can attack and abruptly end the fight. JKD incorporates this lesson amongst others, including some from Dim Mak. Remember that if JKD is all about taking the best methods from each form of fighting, then any DM benefits Pro names as being among the most useful are just as likely to be used under JKD.

3A. Pro points out that TKD and JKD are similar, except TKD uses more feet. However your hands are fast, accurate, and a short distance from your opponent's head making them a great asset in combat. Additionally JKD addresses all elements of kicking, punching, trapping and grappling meaning one learns to use both their feet and other body parts equally to be more effective and unpredictable.

3B. Pro writes, "according to General Choi Hong Hi bruce lee trained in taekwondo for a while before going off to make his own martial art." This only helps my case. If Bruce Lee was well versed in TKD but then felt compelled to create a better, more versatile form of fighting, then it stands JKD includes all of the benefits of TKD (the most necessary and useful styles of attack and defense) while improving on it by incorporating other methods giving the fighter the best chance of surprise and versatility.

4. Pro's only point here is that TKD and JKD are similar. That's true, but doesn't really establish a point.

5. KM is considered by many experts (not just the biased Koreans tooting their own horn, lol) to be the most evolved and effective hand-to-hand combat system ever created. It is also used by all aspects of various military groups and Special Forces including the Swedish Army, FBI, high profile bodyguards, counter-terrorist police units, and SWAT units from around the world [3]. For why KM is superior, see my contentions...

6. Pro says KM is disadvantaged because it's adrenaline based, which he contends is a bad thing. First, those experiencing adrenaline rushes typically feel temporarily stronger, faster and more tolerant of pain [4] which seem ideal for a combat situation. Additionally, Pro makes it seem as if aggression is a bad thing because it increases adrenaline, but aggression is merely defined as any offensive action, attack or procedure [5]. So, defining KM as aggressive merely means it uses some forms of offensive attack. TKD is most certainly aggressive, and even DM is aggressive thereby making this a moot point.

7. Pro concludes by saying TKD is scientifically proven to be the best by "getting the maximum power and speed out of our movements." However, he has given no evidence (sources) to prove that this is true. Moreover, the same concepts of getting the most out of your movements can easily be applied and is applied to KM and JKD. For instance, KM establishes that your movements combine your hardest parts (fists, elbows, shins) against your opponent's softest (eyes, stomach, private parts) [6].

== CONTENTIONS ==

1. Krav Maga was created by Moni Aizik who had extensive martial arts experience in Judo, Jui-Jitsu, etc. These areas in particular encourage using chokes and joint locks rather than strikes, and leverage and technique rather than strength [7]. This means that even scrawny people can be effective using KM. It's the best method for those who are smaller or weaker than their opponents.

2. Unlike other forms of martial arts, KM is engineered for the most brutal and versatile of situations. It prepares you for the unexpected with techniques that can be utilized effectively under pressure. Most importantly, it prepares you for any type of attack considering in the real world there are no honor codes. An attacker might pull a gun, or a knife, or have friends that decide to swarm you leaving you out-numbered.

KM's highly effective techniques are built upon a foundation of key concepts for survival: quick engagement and disengagement (maximum damage in minimum time -- JKD teaches this too), adaptation to whatever card the enemy pulls, and simplicity. Most of the tactics were designed to be simple and universal so that you don't have to think about the move under stress. They work regardless of the direction you are attacked from as well as the size of the attacker [3]. The whole point is to be prepared for anything, and know a few quick and effective moves that will easily wipe out your opponent and allow you to survive unharmed and escape.

3. The biggest advantage of JKD is the versatility it provides, since it incorporates the best of all fighting techniques. Since it espouses the most useful Dim Mak and Taekwondo methods, then it's just as effective as both of those techniques. Additionally it teaches you principles of things like fencing, boxing and TKD so you retain the most useful and effective of ALL martial arts strategies.

4. JKD has several effective strategies, such as targeting their kicks to their opponent's shins, knees, thighs, and mid section considering they are the hardest to defend. It is also the most efficient method because of the simultaneous parrying and punching, which utilizes the principle of economy of motion by combining attack and defense into two movements thus minimizing the "time" element and maximizing the "energy" element.

== CONCLUSION ==

Both of my systems emphasize combat realism: successful methods for real life, non refereed life or death situations. They're also similar in that they're extremely versatile leaving you with the most effective moves from all styles of combat. They teach power in simplicity and thinking critically in a tough situation. They take the best moves from other systems, including Pro's, and improve (perfect) them to make them applicable and effective in any situation. You learn how to fight against those with or without weapons, and have the upper hand regardless of size or circumstance. These systems advocate practicality instead of honor codes. Instead of relying on and being limited to specific techniques, you learn how to put the best technique to practice in a particular situation.

== SOURCES ==

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://www.commandokravmaga.com...
[4] http://www.ehow.com...
[5] http://dictionary.reference.com...
[6] http://www.nytimes.com...
[7] http://hunternuttall.com...
Debate Round No. 2
brokenboy

Pro

1) the reason why i have specified that tkd is a better method for counter attacking is due to the fact that the entire martial art is made to coutner attack whereas with km and jkd they teach to strike first in many cases, also the reason why i said that jkd and taekwondo are similar is beacuse of the fact that they both teach to intercept an attack with an attack and so therefore it will be hard to establish which is the better martial art
2) it is true that jkd incorperates some of the moves HE finds to be the most effective now since bruce lee was a very rare person that had the best physical shape anyone could be in he was using moves that we well suited for him and not thinking about if his students were in the same physical shape as him, for example he says to intercept a fist with a fist right well what if the student is not as fast as the attacker, so therefore the martial art is restricted to those who are in shape and useles to anyone else.
3A) Taekwondo is known for its emphasis on kicking techniques, which distinguishes it from martial arts such as karate or southern styles of kung fu. The rationale is that the leg is the longest and strongest weapon a martial artist has, and kicks thus have the greatest potential to execute powerful strikes without successful retaliation and if you veiw the video on the top right side taekwondo has the fastest and hardest kick out of what fight science belives to be the best martial art disiplines and neither krav manga or jeetkunedo are listded, even if they do get in close tkd are trained to use their hands much like boxing and how to use elbows and knees much like muay thai you have to realise that tkd was also made up of various martial arts the biggest one being kyong nae (art of foot fighting)
4) stated in num 1)
5) yes while that is true, taekwondo is a system of fighting for smaller people to take down bigger opponents and is used in korea, japan, china primarily beacuse the majority of the population is alot smaller than anywhere else this is used in pretty much all of asia and north america
6) yes it is disadvantaged when fighting a dim mak user they can control this adrenaline and kill you with it by making you use to much adrenaline.
7) im sorry for not putting sites in which i will do now
-
- http://www.megavideo.com...
-
-

CON1) while it is true that KM is effective for small people it is not the best. Taekwondo was made by the small for the small that is why it is used all over asia beacuse it is named the best for small people
CON2) KM while it may train you for these situations it most likley wont train you as much as taekwondo for example in many schools if the students are testing for their black belt after they are done the rest of the exam they are put through what is called stress inoculation sparring.

- round 1) they spar one two minute round against a black belt holder normally someone bigger the person sparring the student must go their hardest or else they will get in trouble now what the first round does is it puts the student under 45% stress and makes the student realise that they cant win. power level of student is 50%
- one minute break) this makes the student think about what happend in the round and psyche himself out for the next round
- round 2) they spar for another two minute round generally with someone smaller but faster this raises the stress level to 75% beacuse someone smaller is winning and there are people watching generally in this round their nose is bleeding which teches them to see blood and get over it. power level 20 percent
- one minute break) makes sure that the student knows he is bleeding and once again psyches himself out again adding presure
- round 3) final round 3 minutes generally with the fastest black belt to blind the student with attacks from every angle in this round you get the inoculation result which can happen in three ways freeze, fight, or flight if the student fights this means that he is fighting out of sheer will power if he freezes he is dead if he flights this is also a good reaction but what if you cant run?

CON3) actually this is in fact incorrect while jkd does have bits of taekwondo in it it does not have dim mak the first time that dim mak was taught to someone out side of china was in 1971 the same time bruce lee started making films
also he would not have learned that before hand beacuse he was in wing chun and left for america while he was still a wing chun student
CON4) taekwondo does he exact same thing so does wing chun and many other martial arts dim mak especially but instead of wasting time dim mak touches you once its over so at the same time your attacking he has already won.

CON conclusion- you said that km and jkd teach you to think critically in tough situations well tkd and DM teach the exact opposite just react if you think too much then your memory stores your basic moves into your long term memory causing delayed reaction so by thinking you are going against reaction which is very tough and will sometimes fail causeing the down fall of the user however with taekwondo and dim mak they teach you to embrace it rather than fight it which is why taekwondo is said to have the fastest reaction time.

i thank you once again for debateing your topic really well as i look forward to hearing your response
Danielle

Con

== REBUTTAL ==

1) Pro says that TKD is the best method because the entire martial art revolves around defense. Pro admits that JKD is a similar method based around the same exact concept; I explained how even the name translates to "Intercept." In real life situations you can't be sure that strictly being prepared for defense is enough; sometimes it's optimal to strike your opponent first. This means JKD is the better method over TKD, because while both teach the extremely important mechanisms of counterattacks and defense, JKD teaches the *best* of the TKD methods of defense and combines them with the best of other kinds of methods of offense to make the fighter more well rounded.

2) Pro contends that DM is superior because it teaches specific points of contact that could take down an opponent. I mentioned that JKD teaches that same method (and in fact expands on it). Pro never responded to this, meaning he concedes this point. Both methods teach the same techniques of hitting specific "take down" points.

3A) Pro says that TKD is the best because it emphasizes strong kicks from the leg, considered the most powerful (bodily) weapon and hardest to defend. In the last round I pointed out that JKD emphasizes their kicks to the opponent's shins, knees, thighs, and mid section considering they are the hardest to defend. In other words, it employs the same useful strategy of using the leg and kicks. It even instructs the best places of attack and methods of attack on those specific places. Once again we can see that TKD has not been described as the best method, because JKD does the same thing and in fact better.

3B) Pro writes that JKD is limited, because it was derived according to Lee's strengths and does not consider the shape of those who are not nearly as fit as Lee himself. This is simply not true. As explained, JKD incorporates the best moves not only according to Lee, but to fighters all over the world. He uses the best, most popular and effective methods from various martial arts to create what is known as a hybrid form of martial arts. Hence, JKD is superior because it incorporates the most useful and effective elements of ALL forms of fighting.

Every fighter will have optimal moves according to his particular body type and skill level. However the JKD user can use one of several moves best suited to them and the particular situation they're fighting in. Lee and others have derived the best techniques from all forms of fighting, i.e. for fighters of all kinds. The fighter can use not only what technique is best for his or her own body type, but for whatever the situation called for including what their opponent does or what advantages they may have.

4) We agree that this point is moot.

5) Pro explains that TKD was created for smaller Asian populations to defeat larger enemies. However KM's inception is just as impressive with a similar history. "Completely surrounded by enemies under the most hostile circumstances, Israel has always been outnumbered in its battles. In response to continuous overwhelming odds, the Israelis developed systems of combat that emphasized mental toughness, versatility, innovation and practicality at its core (Krav Maga). The formalities of traditional defense systems were abandoned in favor of methodologies that valued rapid and instinctive learning. These philosophies helped Israel and its citizens to survive in the face of constant aggression as the nation formed one of the most respected military forces in the world in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). Faced with warfare and terrorism, the Israeli military developed combat systems that were practical in the battlefield" [1].

6) In the last round I explained how adrenaline is a positive thing in combat, and can be used to one's significant advantage. Pro never contended that point. Instead he points out that a DM fighter can use one's adrenaline against them causing them to die, though I'd prefer to see a source proving this is true in order to learn more about this tactic. So far I consider adrenaline to be helpful and shown how it was.

7. Pro says neither of my martial arts systems are considered the most deadly according to his list. However I can just as easily link examples citing the deadliest forms of combat in the world where neither TKD nor DM even make the list while my systems reach the top 5 deadliest [2].

== RE: CONTENTIONS ==

1) Pro contends that TKD is the best martial arts for smaller people. I negate. In the last round I explained how KM uses chokes and joint locks rather than strikes, and leverage and technique rather than strength thereby making it the best method for smaller people.

2) I explained that KM prepares you for the unexpected with effective techniques in pressure situations. Most importantly it prepares you for any type of attack considering in the real world there are no honor codes. An attacker might pull a weapon or outnumber you. Pro does not have a defense for this contention, and instead posits that TKD emphasizes more training such as in other areas (like stress training). However, you'll notice that in his example of stress training, the student is still only being trained to fight bigger opponents, smaller and faster opponents, or opponents with more skill level. This does not address my contention that KM prepares you for combat outside of a competition, or outside of situations where you may be outnumbered -- not just outsized or outskilled. Further it prepares you to fight against those who are armed (very important in life or death situations!). TKD's training is specific for hand to hand combat only, and again assumes both fighters are using an honor code of some kind.

3) Pro says it's impossible for DM methods to be used in JKD, because it was derived during the 70s while Bruce Lee was making films in the U.S. However, JKD has evolved over time [3] meaning my opponent cannot prove that DM methods aren't used. Further, the methods of DM he did describe (i.e. the power points for take down moves) are in fact taught in JKD. So far Pro hasn't mentioned elements of DM that JKD doesn't use. In fact, because JKD uses the same "acupuncture points of attack" that Dimmak does, it does have roots in Dimmak or emphasize DM points as described here [4]. Nevertheless, I explained in this point that JKD doesn't just use DM moves but also moves from boxing, fencing, Muay Thai, etc.

4) Here Pro concedes that DM, TKD and JKD teach similar methods. He cites the fact that DM takes opponents down in one move as making it superior. However, this ignores the fact that I've explained how KM does the same thing (one move, then escape unharmed) AND the fact that by his own concession JKD teaches the same thing.

== CONCLUSION ==

TKD and Dimmak are pretty amazing. However JKD takes the BEST elements of those styles (and many others) to combine for one awesome form of martial arts. It's a perfect hybrid mixing all of the best elements from each fighting style. So far every time my opponent tries to make a case for why his systems are superior, it's fallen apart considering JKD contains the same methodology in addition to others that perfect the system. Similarly, KM has many of those advantages coupled with the fact of how it helps fighters of all sizes in nearly ANY situation - including being outnumbered or fighting opponents with weapons. Pro points out problems with "thinking too much" during a fight, but Bruce Lee himself acknowledges "The extraordinary part of [JKD] lies in its simplicity." The whole system was built on utilizing only the best and most effective moves. The same thing can be said of KM which is explicitly designed (and fighters train for) instinctive abilities to help with muscle memory and avoid the problems Pro described.

[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] http://tinyurl.com...
[3] http://tinyurl.com...
[4] http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 3
brokenboy

Pro

1) My opponent brings me back to my argument that jeet kune do is revolved around what is BEST for Bruce lee and what he thinks are the best techniques that doesn't necessarily mean that he took the best techniques just what he found to be the best and what he feels comfortable with.

2) i am sorry for not leaving my response, as I will respond now.
i have proven that dim mak was not taught to Bruce lee and so Bruce lee will in fact not have the same or rather best takedown points.

3A) "In other words, it employs the same useful strategy of using the leg and kicks. It even instructs the best places of attack and methods of attack on those specific places. Once again we can see that TKD has not been described as the best method, because JKD does the same thing and in fact better."

this is once again incorrect because TKD has many kicks and a lot more targets and most likely better ones the three heights you can kick are High (head height/neck/ collar bone) Middle (solar plexus/floating ribs/ribs/liver/sternum) Low
(testicles/common peronial/inner common peronial/peronial anastomotic/shin/midfoot/shin scrape)
The different parts of the foot that taekwondo teach that you may use is foot sword, reverse foot sword, heel, ball of foot, mid foot, and back heel. Then they teach that you can use the shin, knee, and one inch above the knee. The way that TKD generates power and control is by focusing all power into the smallest area possible. Also I have done some research on the amount of time that Bruce lee put into taekwondo and it could not be over 4 months due to Bruce lee's career and the creation of JKD which is too little of a time to learn anything about taekwondo also if he was studying many martial arts he did not stay within it to learn enough so he would have only incorporated a few martial arts and as I said earlier he did not have the time (or take the time) to learn each martial art thoroughly and therefore he did not actually incorporate the best moves and principles from other martial arts.

3B) as I have stated earlier that Bruce lee does not include all forms of fighting twice once in my earlier debate and once in the paragraph above also all the greatest fighters in the world are all physically fit so therefore proving my point that it is based on physically fit people. TKD on the other hand have (at the club i do training at) taught three blind people in which two of them defended them selves against assaults and have taught one with an amputated leg and one born with no arms the one with no arms has surprisingly never lost a fight and has won three national championships which include arms and leg attacks.

4) Yeah pretty much

5) Yeah the history is the same but it states no where that it was made by or for small people where as TKD is used by the three smallest populations in the world japan, korea, china and parts of Asia.

6)
-Epinephrine may be quantitated in blood, plasma or serum as a diagnostic aid, to monitor therapeutic administration or to identify the causative agent in a potential poisoning victim.
-It increases heart rate, contracts blood vessels, dilates air passages and participates in the fight-or-flight response of the sympathetic nervous system.
-Binding to α-adrenergic receptors inhibits insulin secretion by the pancreas, stimulates glycogenolysis in the liver and muscle, and stimulates glycolysis in muscle.[9] β-Adrenergic receptor binding triggers glucagon secretion in the pancreas, increased adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) secretion by the pituitary gland, and increased lipolysis by adipose tissue. Together these effects lead to increased blood glucose and fatty acids, providing substrates for energy production within cells throughout the body.[9]
-The major physiologic triggers of adrenaline release center upon stresses such as physical threat, excitement, noise, bright lights, and high ambient temperature. All of these stimuli are processed in the central nervous system.
In addition to these metabolic changes, epinephrine also leads to broad alterations throughout all organ systems.
-Homeostasis: is the property of the sympithetic nervous system, either open or closed, that regulates its internal environment and tends to maintain a stable, constant condition.
***Dim Mak is primarily based on having complete control over the opponents central and sympithetic nervous system.***

7) actually there has been no records of both your martial arts making 5th place for most deadly KM has in the past been considerd for one of the top ten not top five and if i am wrong please send a link to where you got you information. ninjutsu has been considerd many many times for top five deadlist martial arts and since one of the martial art's predecessor is dim mak it would be most likley that DM would make top five as DM is very rare and almost no one knows about the martial art it advances its position even more.

CON1) i will once again prove that TKD is supirior firstly it was made by general choi hong hi who is only 4feet eight inches tall this is small even for koreans compared to the creator of krav manga who is in fact alot bigger judging by his picture posted in wiki and yet general choi hong hi was able to over come all of the japanese jailers and criminals inside the prison encampment using this new technique and has a long history of the fights he encounterd during the wars and how he was named the little man that couldnt be broken. now in my earlier debates i said that in taekwondo the emphisise technique in order to get maximum power and speed that is why i belive TKD to be supiror compared to KM when it comes to smaller and weaker opponents.

CON2) by sparring i mean fighting and CON has not stated anything about KM doing any stress training or adrenaline training of any kind all martial arts prepare you for fighting more than one opponent CON's list applies to all martial arts however good or bad they may be and i have provided links so as the veiwers can watch how tkd prepares you against group assults and knife assults as well. as you can see in my video links
-
-
- this video is to defend my earlier state ment
-

CON3) DM is very very different than just using presure points they use points that enable the user to have complete control over the both the central nervous system and the sympithetic nervous system where as JKD and other branches of DM only use pressure points which do nothing of the sort to the systems stated previously and DM only showed pressure points to outsiders not there more dangerous attacks. as well JKD may use pressure points but this most likley only came from the DM branches beacuse like i said it is hard to find a instructor that will teach to outsiders.

CON4) DM/TKD " learn to go all out, but at the same time learn to restrain, only then will you achieve true victory in one blow ", these are the morales that they teach in TKD and DM where as KM and JKD do not emphasise this and rather KM especially in fact in your knife self defense video it shows alot more than one move and he literally kills his opponent using the knife.

CON: conclusion
this statement is going against what you said in your last statement about thinking critically in situations so i am now confused as to the truth whether it is this one or the other one.

actually due to recent findings TKD is a project that has gone through changes for more than 2000 years and is still under going changes today beacuse of this TKD has earned world wide recognition as the most advanced martial art. the fourth video states my point - .
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

== RE: REBUTTAL ==

1) I proved that while both TKD and JKD teach important mechanisms of counterattacks and defense, JKD teaches the *best* of the TKD methods and combines them with the best of other methods of offense to make the fighter more well rounded. Pro responded by not challenging this assertion at all (therefore it stands), and instead repeating that JKD is suited to Bruce Lee's needs only. I very clearly negated this point in the last round (under point 3B) when I pointed out that JKD incorporates the best moves not only according to Lee, but to fighters all over the world. Wiki asserts this as well: "JKD not only advocates the combination of aspects of different styles, it also can change many of those aspects that it adopts to suit the abilities of the practitioner." Pro's point has been negated.

POINT - CON

2) Pro contends that DM is superior because it teaches specific points of contact that could take down an opponent. I mentioned that JKD teaches that same method (and in fact expands on it). Both methods teach the same techniques of hitting specific "take down" points, and Pro's only response was that DM was not taught to Bruce Lee -- for which Pro offers not one shred of evidence -- which nonetheless does not negate my point. Lee did not have to be educated on DM specifically to utilize the same techniques; Pro has given no proof Lee did not train for DM; and again other fighters who did know DM (and other arts) helped incorporate the best moves.

POINT - CON

3A) Pro makes several contentions. First, "The way that TKD generates power and control is by focusing all power into the smallest area possible." This is just one technique while JKD employs several great ones. For instance, they advocate low kicks utilizing the principle of economy of motion by reducing the distance a kick must travel, thus minimizing the "time" element. Low kicks are also more difficult to detect and thus guard against [1]. There are other methods that teach you to use what the best mechanism is in the particular fight: efficiency, directness or simplicity. This can be accomplished by attacks in combinations (aimed to rapidly overcome the opponent before they have a chance to defend themselves), progressive indirect attacking (faking your opponent out by attacking one area, leaving them defenseless for an opening in another more harmful area), hand/foot immobilization (making it impossible for your opponent to use that appendage), etc. Pro hasn't proven that TKD's methods are better in any way.

Second, Pro posits that Bruce Lee was too focused on his career to learn all methods of the best martial arts. However, as described by sources in previous rounds, JKD has expanded heavily over the years and has been added to and improved by fighters all over the world. The original conception was Lee's, but some of the best martial artists have contributed heavily to its influence affirming the true hybrid nature of the style. This source notes, "Individuals may, and if fact are expected to, modify, add and delete" [2]. I've proven via sources and other explanations that JKD is a true hybrid art [3].

POINT - CON

3B) Pro contends that only physically fit people can participate in JKD while people of all types can use TKD. On the contrary, I proved that different fighters can utilize different JKD techniques depending on their particular strengths and weaknesses, and in the last round I also proved how Krav Maga actually is among the best types of fighting for the less physically fit (or smaller) people.

POINT - CON

4) Doot.

5) Pro says my source does not prove that KM was made for disadvantaged people. The source from the last round ((1)) specifically explains how it was derived for the Israelites who were always outnumbered in battle, and the other source explains specifically how it is best suited for smaller people (I'll explain it again in a minute...).

POINT - CON

6) Pro says DM is primarily based on having complete control over the opponents central and sympithetic nervous system, but does not explain how or why this is so. I pointed out that adrenaline is considered a *good* thing that could be used to one's advantage in a fight, as Pro agrees it heightens senses, increases strength, etc. Pro never proved that adrenaline was bad or that DM could kill someone by simply making their adrenaline increase; he simply explained how the hormones work.

POINT - CON

7) Pro writes, "actually there has been no records of both your martial arts making 5th place for most deadly... if i am wrong please send a link to where you got you information." In the last round I provided a link proving that my systems have, in fact, been ranked among the best ((2)).

POINT - CON

== Re: CONTENTIONS ==

1) Pro writes, "now in my earlier debates i said that in taekwondo the emphisise technique in order to get maximum power and speed that is why i belive TKD to be supiror when it comes to smaller and weaker opponents."

First, saying it "emphasizes technique" means nothing considering all forms of martial arts emphasize technique. Second, I've repeated that KM uses chokes and joint locks rather than strikes, and leverage and technique rather than strength *thereby making it the best method for smaller people.*

POINT - CON

2) I explained how KM prepares you for all types of attacks (being outnumbered, using weapons, etc.). Pro says KM is inferior because it doesn't teach stress or adrenaline training. This is false. "Krav Maga utilizes specific drills and scenario-based training to mimic the adrenaline response, which allows students to acclimate to how the body responds" [4]. Pro's point has been proven false and negated; KM does teach how to be effective under pressure.

POINT - CON

3) Pro concedes that JKD also utilizes effective pressure points, therefore cites the fact that Dimmak seeks to control "systems" i.e. one's stress or adrenaline system as a mechanism which makes it superior. However I've explained that KM teaches one how to not let adrenaline take control over their system making this a moot advantage. Additionally, the book 'Real Fighting: Adrenaline Stress Conditioning Through Scenario-Based Training' praises JKD as a method that gives this form of martial art the same advantage, meaning Pro hasn't proved still how his arts are better.

POINT - CON

4) Pro concludes that TKD and DM are superior because they teach "restraint, only then will you achieve true victory in one blow." However, I've explained that JKD teaches the same concept of intercepting attacks, and using that interception to fuel your next move. KM's goal isn't restraint: it's to escape unharmed. Restraint may or may not be the best method in a particular moment; my systems allow the fighter to know and utilize whatever happens to be the best mode of attack in any particular situation.

POINT - CON

== Conclusion ==

KM techniques are straight forward and based on natural instincts, as opposed to TKD and DM which consist of complex movements, fancy strikes that necessitate flexibility and coordination, and pinpoint accuracy that can take years to master. Because the techniques are natural, it's easy to respond under stress using KM. The fact that it teaches specifically how to confront *any* and every threat makes it among the best. JKD being a hybrid that also seeks to suit the particular fighter and situation also prove superior; it utilizes the BEST modes of all arts and eliminates the fluff. My systems leave you confident under stress and pressure, and non-susceptible to Pro's DM "adrenaline techniques" making them moot. My systems also make the fighter most versatile at both offensive and defense, and implement the best techniques from all forms of fighting.

[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] http://tinyurl.com...
[3] http://tinyurl.com...
[4] http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rob1Billion 6 years ago
Rob1Billion
entertaining vids
Posted by brokenboy 6 years ago
brokenboy
i have a question for the L werd which out of the two that you selected did you find to be better?
Posted by brokenboy 6 years ago
brokenboy
DM is such a rare martial art that there are only a total of most likley 50 practioners around the world the chances of bruce lee even any of his students learning this and incorperateing this is very very slim
Posted by carman16 6 years ago
carman16
i practice Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do
Posted by jupiter 6 years ago
jupiter
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Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
"yes but have you seen the butality of krav manga also as con said it revoles around aggression" -- brokenboi

It doesn't revolve around aggression at all. Aggression refers to striking first. Striking first isn't necessarily inherently bad (sometimes it's good!). But if you want to talk about a form of martial arts being bad simply because you think it's "brutal," then you should take a look at your own system of Dimmak. "Dimmak is made to kill an opponent. Then we also have a type of Dimmak who is made to only afflict the opponent with pain, this aspect is called Dar Mak [1]." Krav Maga's intent is to teach the fighter to escape unharmed; in other words attack and flee. This is stressed in KM training, yet your system's literal INTENT is to kill someone lol. That's not necessarily bad, but it presents kind of a hypocritical argument since you're trying to say KM is "too aggressive."
Posted by mattrodstrom 6 years ago
mattrodstrom
kung fu is the best to watch!
Posted by annhasle 6 years ago
annhasle
Enshin Karate and Brazilian Ju Jitsu are the best.
Posted by InsertNameHere 6 years ago
InsertNameHere
Yes! Lwerd included Krav Maga! :D
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 1 year ago
famousdebater
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Reasons for voting decision: Spelling and grammar is awarded to con since pro failed to capitalize on multiple occasions.
Vote Placed by TheSupremeDebater 1 year ago
TheSupremeDebater
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Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Forgot to neutralize this one. Thanks for pointing it out.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
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Vote Placed by brokenboy 6 years ago
brokenboy
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Vote Placed by shadow835 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by carman16 6 years ago
carman16
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Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
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