The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Diirez
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

the bible has no significant contradictions

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Diirez
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/19/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 643 times Debate No: 34907
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

the only one's i predict you might find, as trivial details, like how many people were at a place, or the color of something. or things that are too vague to mean anything, "our God is a venegful God" "our God is a merciful God".
anything else as far as i know, has reasonable explanations.
Diirez

Con

Alright here we go.

Is God good to everyone or just some?
"The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works." PSA 145:9
"And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." JER 13:14

War or Peace?
"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." EXO 15:3
"Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen." ROM 15:33

The Father of Joseph
"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who called Christ." MAT 1:16
"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." LUK 3:23
(Significance is if the authors can't agree on Joseph's father, then how do they know Jesus is in the same line as David?)

Who was at the tomb? (you would think if it was such a fact, there would be a consensus on who found it.)
"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre." MAT 28:1
"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him." MAR 16:1
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Is Jesus equal to God or Lesser?
"I and my Father are one." John 0:30
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

Sins of the father and son
"Prepare for slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities." Isaiah 14:21
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

The Righteous live?
"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree." Psalm 92:12
"The righteous perisheth and no man layeth it to heart." Isaiah 57:1

Jesus' last words
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?' that is to say 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Matthew 27:46,50
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, 'Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:' and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Luke 23:46
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished:' and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost."

Can God be seen?
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand and thou shalt see my backparts." Exodus 33:23
"And the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." Exodus 33:11
"For I have seen God face to face and my life is preserved." Genesis 32:30
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." John 1:18
"And he said, thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." Exodus 33:20
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." 1 Timothy 6:16

Love or Cruelty?
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." JER 13:14
"The LORD is very pitiful and of tender mercy." JAS 5:11
"For his mercy endureth forever." 1CH 16:34
"The LORD is good to all and his tender mercies are over all his works." PSA 145:9
"God is love." 1JO 4:16

Temptation
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." Genesis 22:1
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." JAS 1:13

Ascension to Heaven?
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2KI 2:11
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven,...the Son of Man." JOH 3:13

How many beatitudes?
Matthew says there's 9 (MAT 5:3-11)
Luke says there's 4 (LUK 6:20-23)

Judging
"The spiritual man makes judgements about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgement." 1 Cor 2:15
"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the LORD comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

Viewing of Good Deeds
"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your god deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matt 5:16
"But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Matt 6:3-4

For or Against?
"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matt 12:30
"For he that is not against us is on our part." MAR 9:40
"And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." LUK 9:50

The Second Coming
"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matt 24:34
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." MAR 13:30
"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." LUK 21:32
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

Is God good to everyone or just some?
"The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works." PSA 145:9
"And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." JER 13:14

too vague, as i predicted in the initial post.

War or Peace?
"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." EXO 15:3
"Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen." ROM 15:33

too vague, as i predicted in the initial post.

The Father of Joseph
"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who called Christ." MAT 1:16
"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." LUK 3:23
(Significance is if the authors can't agree on Joseph's father, then how do they know Jesus is in the same line as David?)

I'd say it's a minor detail.
"The explanation given by Augustine is that Joseph had a biological father and an adoptive father, and that one of the gospels traces the genealogy through the adoptive father in order to draw parallels between Joseph and Jesus (both having an adoptive father). Augustine also claims that adoption is a good metaphor to represent God's relationship with humankind, in the sense that God "adopted" human beings as his children (despite them being created, not born of him).[49]"

Who was at the tomb? (you would think if it was such a fact, there would be a consensus on who found it.)
"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre." MAT 28:1
"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him." MAR 16:1
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

so what if "the other Mary" isnt mentioned in one verse? it doesn't mean she wasn't there. plus it's not that significant of a detail.

Is Jesus equal to God or Lesser?
"I and my Father are one." John 0:30
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

Christians believe in the trinity, it's not suppose to make complete logical sense. the Father is God, the Son is God, but the Father is not the son. but given they are both God, logic etc dictates that in a sense they are one.

Sins of the father and son
"Prepare for slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities." Isaiah 14:21
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

i tend to agree with you. but, one could be about not punishing someone for specific crimes of the father. the other could be for punishing for general crimes. ie, no stoning cause your dad was an adulterer. but you can kill cause the father was generally bad new. here is another explanation (stretches it I admit)
http://www.tektonics.org...

The Righteous live?
"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree." Psalm 92:12
"The righteous perisheth and no man layeth it to heart." Isaiah 57:1

too vague, people can flourish but will one day die.

Jesus' last words
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?' that is to say 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Matthew 27:46,50
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, 'Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:' and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Luke 23:46
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished:' and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost."

he might have said all of it, just cause it wasn't an exact paraphrase doesn't mean it wasn't last words generally.
i also tend to think it's not all that significant.

Can God be seen?
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand and thou shalt see my backparts." Exodus 33:23
"And the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." Exodus 33:11
"For I have seen God face to face and my life is preserved." Genesis 32:30
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." John 1:18
"And he said, thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." Exodus 33:20
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." 1 Timothy 6:16

God in his infiniteness cannot be seen. in human form he can be seen.

Love or Cruelty?
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." JER 13:14
"The LORD is very pitiful and of tender mercy." JAS 5:11
"For his mercy endureth forever." 1CH 16:34
"The LORD is good to all and his tender mercies are over all his works." PSA 145:9
"God is love." 1JO 4:16

too vague almost like the example i used in the initial post.

Temptation
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." Genesis 22:1
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." JAS 1:13

probably just a play on words, God doesn't try to get people to sin, but he does tempt them. tempting and wanting them to sin are different.

Ascension to Heaven?
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2KI 2:11
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven,...the Son of Man." JOH 3:13

maybe insignificant. but yeah kinda a contradiction. some people think Jesus was a reincarnation of Elijah.

How many beatitudes?
Matthew says there's 9 (MAT 5:3-11)
Luke says there's 4 (LUK 6:20-23)

just cause they aren't all listed in Matthew doesn't mean they aren't included.

Judging
"The spiritual man makes judgements about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgement." 1 Cor 2:15
"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the LORD comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

play on words. there's a difference between characterizing one's actions, and judging their heart. "his actions are bad but he might not know better". people make this mistake all the time "the bible says Judge not", yet it doesn't say you can't characterize the situation "the acts are wrong, whether he is culpable is another question"

Viewing of Good Deeds
"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your god deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matt 5:16
"But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Matt 6:3-4

there's a time and a place for showing good deeds. and a lot depends on your motivations in why you want the good deeds shown.

For or Against?
"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matt 12:30
"For he that is not against us is on our part." MAR 9:40
"And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." LUK 9:50

too vague.

The Second Coming
"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matt 24:34
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." MAR 13:30
"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." LUK 21:32

they all say the same thing. generation might be recent era of mankind.
Diirez

Con

"too vague, as I predicted in the initial post."
It is not too vague. It says God is good to everyone. Then the next exert says god will not pity or spare anyone. Major contradiction.

"Too vague, as I predicted in the initial post."
Not too vague again, it's very specific. God is a man of war. God is a man of peace. Huge contradiction, it's just like saying Zeus is the god of The Sky, Zeus is the God of the Sea. Or Ares is the god of war, Ares is the god of peace. It just doesn't make sense.

"I'd say it's a minor detail."
It's not minor because if the bible can't get the genealogy correct then we can't expect to say Jesus is in the same line as David.

"so what if 'the other Mary' isn't mentioned in one verse? it doesn't mean she wasn't there. plus it's not that significant of a detail."
I'll give you that.

"Christians believe in the trinity, it's not suppose to make complete logical sense. the Father is God, the Son is God, but the Father is not the son. but given they are both God, logic etc dictates that in a sense they are one."
And? that has nothing to do with the contradiction. I know of the trinity. But the posts that I pointed out, Jesus says he is equal to god and then says he is lesser to god. Contradiction.

"he might have said all of it, just cause it wasn't an exact paraphrase doesn't mean it wasn't last words generally.
i also tend to think it's not all that significant."
It shows that even the authors couldn't agree on Jesus' last words. How are we expected to believe what they wrote about his other words?

"God in his infiniteness cannot be seen. in human form he can be seen."
That still doesn't make up for the contradiction.

"too vague almost like the example I used in the initial post."
It's 5 descriptions of god, all being contradicted. How do we decide on one?
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

i think you should be giving my arguments more credence. but i admit they are stretching it.

i concede the debate.
Diirez

Con

I showed contradictions and cited them correctly.

Take what you will from it.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
Well done Con
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 3 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
i admit i would probably vote for con.
Posted by YellowPandaBear 3 years ago
YellowPandaBear
Which bible shall we use, what is significant, and shall we take the bible literally or is it open to interpretation by either party?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
dairygirl4u2cDiirezTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession by Pro who even admits in the comments she would also vote for Con.
Vote Placed by wiploc 3 years ago
wiploc
dairygirl4u2cDiirezTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Slam dunk, plus conceded.
Vote Placed by Siege 3 years ago
Siege
dairygirl4u2cDiirezTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's "contradictions" were shaky and could've easily been torn to pieces. However, Pro failed to do so and actually conceded. Pretty easy.
Vote Placed by phantom 3 years ago
phantom
dairygirl4u2cDiirezTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.