The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Burls
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

the catholic church officially teaches that nonbaptized infants go to hell

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
dairygirl4u2c
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/1/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 432 times Debate No: 77189
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

the only teachings that might say otherwise, are fallible, nonauthoritative statements. the church might currently unoffically teach the issue is open to speculation, but officially they have already made a decision. remember to be authoritative, it has to be the pope, intentionally, teaching, the church, on faith and morals. private letters, presentations to limited audiences etc, theological commissions, do not count.

just some examples:

Council of Florence Session 11 (Bull Cantate Domino): "With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time..."

Council of Florence Session 6 "..the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."
Burls

Con

Pro won a debate in which she defended a position of embellishment in the Bible.

Perhaps some in the audience can agree that baptism and circumcision are metaphors that have been adopted as being physical requirements. In this example physical baptism and circumcision are embellishments.

If there is a higher reason for incarnation in the sense of giving us the opportunity to circumcise ourselves from certain influences, then yes, babies and children and adults even who have not been baptized by the water(a metaphor) and circumcised (another metaphor) 'remain' in a state of 'hell'.

http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

it's hard to understand con's points. they metaphically go to hell, or they dont do metaphor so they are in hell?

regardless, the point is that the catholic church doesn't teach any of this metaphorically, and you without question go to hell if you aren't baptized.
Burls

Con

The first evidence I produce in refuting the opening argument is the etymology of 'Teach': "docent, docible, docile - Docent comes from Latin docere, "to teach"; docible is "capable of learning" and docile first meant "teachable."

One may agree that the Church officially 'instructs' students in unquestionable precepts thus rendering the student instructed and logically unteachable ; that is to say 'undocile'.

The second evidence is the substantiation of the metaphorical nature in the Bible and in the allegorical description of Hell by the 'burning' discomfort of being visited by the nature of how we treat others.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
https://www.biblegateway.com...
http://biblehub.com...
http://biblehub.com...
http://biblehub.com...
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

con engages in jibber jabber that is hard to take seriously. hopefully the voters recognize this.
Burls

Con

...and he plagiarized the dictionary.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Burls 2 years ago
Burls
My next argument goes with semantics in that the Catholics instruct students to learn by rote rather than teaching with examples, thus refuting the opening position.
Posted by Burls 2 years ago
Burls
...Expecting the coup de gr"ce...
Posted by joetheripper117 2 years ago
joetheripper117
How will there be any debate? This is simply what they do.
Posted by TheWORDisLIFE 2 years ago
TheWORDisLIFE
That's what the church teaches, but that's not what the Bible says.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Philocat 2 years ago
Philocat
dairygirl4u2cBurlsTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro wins this debate, since he set out from round 1 a clear case that demonstrated examples of catholic teachings on the matter. Con could have done a lot better here, instead his arguments seem confusing and waffly. He makes no clear argument in order to negate the resolution. Con even seems to concede that 'then yes, babies and children and adults even who have not been baptized by the water(a metaphor) and circumcised (another metaphor) 'remain' in a state of 'hell'.' Since Con had to argue that the Catholic Church *doesn't* teach that unbaptised infants go to hell, it is self-refuting to state or imply that they do.
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
dairygirl4u2cBurlsTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con completely ignores the resolution and engages in "jibber jabber " to quote pro. Pro quotes Catholic doctrine to support her position in round one, and con seems to concede that catholic doctrine teaches that kids metaphorically go to hell, which still supports pro's side of the resolution. Con's arguments are not very comprehensible though, which is his job as a debater, to make them comprehensible. Con please do a better job of educating the voter in the future, or perhaps making sure your thoughts are clear, before writing them down.