The Instigator
leonitus2464
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
fa07
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

the federation of planets(star trek) would lose a war against the galactic empire(star wars)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
fa07
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/29/2014 Category: TV
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 933 times Debate No: 59740
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (2)

 

leonitus2464

Pro

my position is that the galactic empire would win a war against the fedaration of planets.

round 1: acceptance
round 2/3: debate
round 4: conclusion
fa07

Con

Federation ships have warp capabilities, which would give them a significant advantage. They also have photon torpedoes. They could warp around ships and fire a photon torpedo attack. According to Wikipedia, the maximum theoretical yield for a photon torpedo would be 25 isotons, which could destroy an entire city in seconds. However, if the Federation used the photon torpedoes modified by Borg technology (gravimetric), its yield would be increased to 54 isotons, more than enough to destroy a small planet. The Federation also have phasers. It depends on if a Jedi could block a phaser beam with his lightsaber. You could really debate that forever. If the Federation used widebeam setting for their phasers, a Jedi would be less likely to deflect it, but widebeam setting is apparently inefficient and so would do less damage. The Federation also has transporters. If the Federation could use transporters in battle, it would be a significant advantage because they could beam from place to place while mounting a phaser attack.

Hypothetically, the Federation could also use the transporter itself as a weapon and simply dematerialize members of the Empire atom by atom. They could transport entire ships to the other side of the galaxy or simply dematerialize them. Overall, the Federation would have a significant advantage with both speed and technology. With gravimetric torpedoes, who knows how high the yield could be. It could be modified to be millions of isotons, giving the Federation superior firepower. This is on top of the pulse cannons, plasma cannons, and all of the other weapons the Federation has at their disposal. With phasers, gravimetric torpedoes, warp maneuverability, and using transporters as weapons, the Federation would totally own the Galactic Empire.
Debate Round No. 1
leonitus2464

Pro

even if the federation has slightly more advanced technology which i don't think its to far ahead of the empire. there are still many issues with the federation one is manpower the federation cant match the empire on manpower the armies of the empire are unlimited because they use clones which creates an unlimited army at their disposal. another is weaponry the federation has good ships but the ships they have dont have nearly as much firepower as the empires ships because the star destroyers have hundreds of laser canons and hundreds of tie fighters the plus the empire has control of millions of planets while the federation has control of hundreds that gives the empire a resource advantage plenty to build their ships, fighters, etc but their is another advantage the empire has a superior ground army their ground army has not only numbers on their side but they also have better weapons for a ground invasion like here is a link showing the ground capabilities of the empire.

http://starwars.wikia.com...

the federation has very limited ground capabilities and they primarily use the space fleet.
fa07

Con

If the Federation had weaponized transporters, they would already be at a significant advantage. No matter how many clones you bring at them, the Federation could dematerialize them down to the atomic level, or transport entire ships halfway across the universe. Not to mention if the Federation has gravimetric torpedoes that can produce a yield of millions of isotons, they could literally wipe out an area several light-years across. How is the Empire going to compete with that? As I've already said, the Federation would be at a significant advantage with regards to speed. They have warp capabilities. How is the Empire even going to catch up to Federation Starships when they have warp maneuverability? All the Federation has to do is warp around the ships and launch a photon torpedo attack.

The Empire may have an advantage at ground level, but the Federation doesn't even need to be on the ground. As I said, with gravimetric torpedoes, the Federation could blow up countless planets because of the increased isoton yield. They could blow up a system of the Empire's planets and warp halfway across the galaxy. What is the Empire going to do when one of their ships is transported halfway across the galaxy to an ambush surrounded by Starships launching photon torpedo attacks? Phasers can be adjusted to penetrate Borg shields, so I don't see why phasers couldn't be adjusted to get through just about any shield the Empire would have to offer.

You also have to consider if the Federation had access to wormhole travel and time travel. There's the USS Relativity, with a temporal transporter that can beam someone to any point in space and time. The Federation could just use that, and go back in time to make sure the Empire never even existed. In DS9 the Federation was working on creating artificial wormholes. If we assume the Federation found out how to stabilize artificial wormholes, they could just create a wormhole and transport most of the Empire to another dimension, and then finish off the rest with a gravimetric torpedo blast before hitting warp 9 to another part of the galaxy. The Empire wouldn't even know what him them.
Debate Round No. 2
leonitus2464

Pro

the federation has problems transporting people so what makes you think they can militarize it that quickly thats improbable. and proton torpedo don't compare to a death star that the empire could use to annihilate the federation fleet easily and the empire ships have hyper speed same thing. and ground armies do matter thats how planets get captured. your putting to much faith in just the fleet the imperial fleet is twice the size and has twice the fire power plus thousands of tie fighters. they could easily over whelm them they do have weapons and technology that match the federation.
fa07

Con

I don't see any reason why the Federation couldn't turn transporters into weapons. Similarly, I don't see any reason why the Federation couldn't use Borg technology to modify photon torpedoes to drastically increase isoton yield. In fact, it occurred in an episode of Voyager. Sure, the Empire can use HyperDrive, but can it use HyperDrive in battle? Anyway, at least the concept of the Warp Drive is somewhat rooted in scientific reality. It is basically similar to an Alcubierre drive, which warps the space-time continuum around the ship to travel at faster-than-light speeds. The HyperDrive on the other hand, is entirely unrealistic, allowing the ship to enter another dimension to travel at ludicrous speeds that would be inconsistent with the laws of physics. This is another problem with the entire format of this debate is that Star Trek usually has to have some semblance of a plausible explanation. For example, the Heisenberg compensator, to compensate for Heisenberg's uncertainty principle in the transporation of crew members.

Star Wars doesn't even really try to have a plausible explanation for a lot of their concepts. Like the HyperDrive. How are you going to travel at the speed of light? You can't travel at the speed of light. It would require infinite energy. And the Force? How is that explained? How are you going to defy the laws of physics and use the force? How could the Empire understand the complexities of gene expression to clone human DNA? Anyway, vote for Federation because at least they try back their stuff up with semi-plausible scientific explanations. I've got a pair of Wookies that Darth Vader can kiss.
Debate Round No. 3
leonitus2464

Pro

when the characters in star trek explain their technology its just techno jargon its trying to sound very technical. but when again I said that they couldn't weaponize their transporters quick enough to win a war with the empire. but again your under estimating the star destroyers they actully have tons of fire power.

http://starwars.wikia.com...

that and the empire has a superior ground invasion army than the federation does hands down with theur man power and weaponry and yes they do clone to make the storm troopers.

http://starwars.wikia.com...

this is why the empire would win this has been a fun debate.

vote pro
fa07

Con

I agree. This has been an enjoyable debate. Vote con.
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Codedlogic 2 years ago
Codedlogic
The Empire can't even handle a few ragtag rebels with a handful of tye fighters. What makes anyone think they would have any chance against a Galaxy Class starship?
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
Made an opinion topic for this one http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Astal3 2 years ago
Astal3
True. But if you want to take the boarding capabilities a Sith would rape the crew of a federation starship. There is more than you think but you don't need a lot to be effective. Plus you still have all the other points I brought up about production. And really if you start breaking capabilities down the empire is quite arguably more advanced than the federation. I would stop trying to blanket the situation as your opponent is going into more specific details and capabilities. In trun you should do the same.
Posted by leonitus2464 2 years ago
leonitus2464
there are very few sith im talking about military capabilities mainly
Posted by Astal3 2 years ago
Astal3
Both sides have advanced weaponry. A huge advantage that pro continues to ignore is the existence of sith. The empire has the death star. Star destroyers. Nano bots. All that crap. I've read a lot of the books and played most of the games plus have watched every movie. Strship sheilds in star trek can be overloaded. A star destroyer would shred any federation ship. Getting through the sheilds is one thing. But it would take a federation ship a while to take down a star destroyed. Plus the empire can massively outproduce the federation. All they would have to do is swarm. For every star destroyer you take out five more are lined behind it. The federation is like greece. And the empire is like rome. We all know how that turned out.
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
Oh key thing missing from this debate... What iteration of each? And what is considered cannon?
I should add that note to the new users guide.
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
A lot of people seem to mistake the Federation, for the alternate reality version of them that weaponized transporters and everything else they could get their hands on. However, people do tend to forget that the Federation while generally being [insert derogatory term for too nice here], have some serious social problems as well (not as bad as the Empire, but still noteworthy). Yet I do fully agree that the Empire is less technologically advanced... But people put too much stock in that, were their ships that much slower (slower than warp1) the federation would be bound by their prime directive; which would cause their politicians to cripple any military action.
Posted by fa07 2 years ago
fa07
Ah, my bad; didn't realize first round was supposed to be acceptance.
Posted by leonitus2464 2 years ago
leonitus2464
naw its cool
Posted by fa07 2 years ago
fa07
*Con sorry
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
leonitus2464fa07Tied
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Total points awarded:11 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct (pro): Con did an accidental blunder, please be careful next time. S&G (con): Pro lacked Punctuation throughout, I suggest using MS word (or similar program) to assist next time. Argument (tied): Neither side fully advanced their case enough with evidence. First I am really sick of 'if they had this other technology they don't normally have' arguments creeping into these. Yes Batman could take them all out, since this week he has a special anti-space-fleet gadget on his utility belt, but such isn't relevant to the normal course of a war (both sides have fought plenty of wars never thinking of these things). Clones are of course not unlimited. If the federation teamed up with the borg (no source implies they otherwise have hybrid borg torpedos), if they had weaponized transporters (since when do they have those?), or if fleet is twice the size (sources are really needed for such things). Sources (tied): Pro did have a couple, but not used very effectively. Props for trying.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
leonitus2464fa07Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I found the notion of weaponized transporters to be pretty interesting and compelling. Pro failed to really establish that there was more firepower from the Empire, as such, I feel Con gets the points here. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.