The Instigator
Alexander94
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

the most important cause of the downfall of tsardom in Russia was due to entering ww1

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/31/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,521 times Debate No: 19069
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

Alexander94

Pro

any takers?
imabench

Con

When Russia entered WWI, there were many existing problems that had begun to contribute to the end of the czarist age. There was great oppression of the people because Russia prior to WWI was a very autocratic government where the religion was part of the government, and priests actually worked as government agents to find any criminals or enemies of the state. Prior to WWI much of the Russian peoples were living in grinding poverty, excruciating tax rates (people with beards had to pay a tax for having a beard), and any form of protest, no matter how minor in nature, was dealt with quickly and with overwhelming force by the government. Trade Unions were also strictly prohibited and freedom of the press and freedom of the speech were only fantasies.

Czarist Russia collapsed because of the long oppression of its working class peoples. People were not allowed to speak in their native language, practice foreign religions, and could not marry above their class. 85% of the people were poor peasant farmers who were farmers who tried to grow anything in the harshness of Russia. Those who werent farmers were factory workers who worked 11 hour a day shifts in horrible conditions day after day, even on saturdays. Russian serf were technically slaves until 1860.

In 1905 it was the failure of the Russo-Japanese War that triggered the creation of many revolutionary political parties that began as an underground movement that began to attract the beaten peasants to their ranks. These parties were unable to gain significant control since they were illegal, but when Russia entered WWI, its limited resources were quickly diminished and it army was soon immobilized, it was then that Russia underwent a communist revolution as the underground movements began to overthrow the government when even the soldiers joined their side.

WWI wasnt the most important cause to the downfall of imperialist Russia, it was the long oppression of its own people that caused the downfall of tsardom.
Debate Round No. 1
Alexander94

Pro

It is clear to say that the failed attempt of a revolution in 1904 due to the main fact of the army staying loyal to the Tsar! it is proved by many historians that without the army's support the tsar would be powerless. The main factor of going into world war 1 for Russian soldiers were poor conditions at the front:
1 Some soldiers fought bare foot as the government could not fund all the equipment needed.
2 Many soldiers fought in pairs as there were not enough ammo to go around
3 The hospitals set up on the front lines were over populated
all these factors caused many soldier to die when many could have fought on and perhaps have done better at war. many peasants were parents to lost sons at war. this upset them as the war was thought to be a quick success to Russia due to the size of the army.

Mid war the tsar himself took the position of general himself and every lost battle was blamed on him personally. Mean while due to his absence the tsarina's and Rasputin took over government and made many foul decisions which also destroyed the tsars reputation.

Before the war the tsar was popular as many cheered him as he declared war.

Due to all theses issues I have raised sparked the fuse to the revolution of February 1917.
And it is clear to say that when the army refused to support the tsar that is when he resigned in February 1917.

Sorry for my punctuation its not that great.
imabench

Con

What is being debated is whether or not WWI caused the collapse of imperial Russia, I am arguing that WWI was merely the straw that broke the Camels back.

Russia's army was terribly under funded and under supplied, but because the troops were always within the borders any attempt to actually overthrow the Czar could be dealt with because only part of the army would be needed and not the entire army. WWI sucked all Russian troops outside of the countries borders and away from the main part of Russia and that allowed the revolution to occur.

WWI simply allowed people the chance to overthrow the government, it did not single-handedly create the movement and the revolution all at once.

Before the war the Czar was hated, Russians were so poor and the government so incompetent that people forced the czar to create a Russian Parliament 10 years before Russia even entered WWI. Such hated him first aroused for his actions on "Bloody Sunday" and it was from that day on that people resented the Czar.

Bloody Sunday was a day when striking workers personally appealed to the Czar for reforms by going to is palace, but upon their arrival they were attacked and by the end of the attack 100 lay dead and 300 lay wounded, many of them mortally. This event alone was the equivalent of "The Alamo" for Russian workers and this event alone sparked the failed revolution of 1905. The resentment against the Czar lingered for many years until finally people had their chance during WWI to finally depose the Czar.

To summarize, people hated the Czar, openly protested his regime, and when WWI came about the opportunity was given and seized by the working men of Russia to depose the Czar once and for all. WWI did not CAUSE Imperial Russia to collapse, it only ALLOWED it to happen because as I have stated, people had resented the Tzar long before WWI and people were only waiting for the opportune moment to overthrow him.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...


Debate Round No. 2
Alexander94

Pro

My question is identifying the "MOST IMPORTANT CAUSE" I am not saying the others did not have an impact on the downfall however the tsar would never have abdicated if the army had of stayed loyal; but they did not.

After bloody Sunday the tsar made certain reforms that actually got Russia back on track and actually he was loved by many as he was greeted many times an went around st.petersburg for the celebration of the 300 year Romano's were in power and people trew flowers and sung songs as he paraided also the public wanted him to go to war.

Due to the black hundread political partie that was set up by the tsar to repress opestion and hunt them down- many opposition leaders fled the country 2 main opposition leaders: lenin and trotsky flead.

so at the build up before ww1 there were less than 100 strikes in the whole year as opposed to after ww1 over 13,000 strikes.

The army had always stayed loyal to the tsar as the army in russia was most diciplined and would not mutiny agaisnt him, however they finnally did as nicholas the second was not organised enough to support the army's need of food and equipment and with so many dead DUE to the war there morale was at an all time low.

Therefore your arrgument is void as none of what you have said would have contributed singally as the biggest cause of the downfall of the tsar. And if Russia had not went into war then the army would have stayed strong and loyal as they had always been but as they were mistreated and reduced and located at the front line this allowed the revoulution to happen and succed VOTE PRO.

Great debate many thanks. Voters read the question before voteing i am asking for the most important cause!

Sorry for punctuation again really not my strong point
imabench

Con

Resolution States "Most important CAUSE of downfall of Imperial Russia....."

The Pro is saying how before the War the Tzar was loved, but I have offered much evidence against that belief. The Pro has not offered a counter argument to why decades and decades of the government's oppression against their own people played LESS of a role then Russia's entry into WWI. Instead he has only provided us about facts about the Russian army.

What is being debated is the most important CAUSE.

The impoverished people of Russia were dis-satisfied with their government. Before WWI there was still resentment, and plenty of it. When Russia began to get whipped during WWI, that only added more resentment to that of which already was there.

The Pro's entire argument so far is that the biggest influence on the downfall of Russia was the loyalty/disloyalty of their troops around WWI. The troops though did not start the revolution, they only switched sides. If there were already sides to choose then that would mean that civilians had already taken measures to overthrow their own government.

Which of the two factors seems to have had a greater impact on the Russian Revolution?
A) Troops switching sides during WWI
B) The actions of oppressed civilians that created an anti-government movement that was strong in numbers that had already existed well before Russia even entered WWI.

The most important cause of the downfall of Russia were the millions of people who resented the government, actively tried to limit their power, created anti-government political movements well before WWI broke out, and viewed their own government as corrupt and incompetent, who then after recruiting the governments own soldiers succeeded in overthrowing the oppressive regime in the midst of WWI.

I rest my case

Vote Pro
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Stephen_Hawkins 3 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
I'm so tempted to vote pro...
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
sh*t i put vote for pro at the end............. sh*t
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
Sure thing good luck with it :)
Posted by Alexander94 3 years ago
Alexander94
OK but do you mind if i reply tomorrow as i have a important piece of homework due tomorrow thanks :)
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
could you raise the character limit? 1000 is barely anything at all
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by GWindeknecht1 3 years ago
GWindeknecht1
Alexander94imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed effectively burden of proof had not been met, and he was the only one who used a cited source.