The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
AnalyticArizonan
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

the right single payer system would be a better economic system than we have now

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
AnalyticArizonan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/13/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,850 times Debate No: 24215
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

the right single payer system would be a better economic system than we have now

we spend more per capita, and get less health care results back... than any other country in the world:
http://cthealth.server101.com...
-we spend 17% of our GDP on healthcare, while single payer countries spend 10%. that 7% represents a lot of money, a trillion dollars.
-the savings come from a decrease in administrative costs: insurance companies are a middleman that serves no real purpose other than spending 30% of revenue on administrative costs and profit, costs that could be just as easily streamlined by the government down to less than 5% or so. (medicare for example requires 3% for administration). The costs are higher with so many companies, because there's so much redundancy... thousands of payroll departments instead of one, for example.
-our GDP is 14 trillion, our national debt is close to there. 1 trillion dollars a year, enough to boost our economy significantly, or eliminate our debt if we wanted (political football as to how that would be done), or at the end of the day simply keep more money our pocket.
-if the government did it right (big if, granted), it would be a self contained system (no taxes other than from those who want to join), we would not coerce people to join, and/or they could utilize 'supplemental insurance' in addition to the government's system and get more options. they wouldn't have to wait in lines then, which aren't that long to begin with. (two weeks max for most standard procedures, short for emergencies etc, and with many insurance companies worse than many single payer systems... and most citizens in single payer countries do not envy us).
-insurance companies could even still exist (they may need to retain the current regulations to cover some preexisting conditions by law, so as to prevent them from skimming off a bunch of healthy people from government plans, to ensure the pool is sufficient to cover everyone in it to a reasonable extent--the most difficult aspect of allowing insurance companies to still exist, the government's power here and the overall give and take here, is huge).
-there could be limits on the amount of care which is essentially what insurance companies already do and people understand as a necessity (eg, a 200k policy) (there would be no need for 'death panels'). the copays, premiums (or taxes), carrots and sticks, could be done so as to ensure people don't abuse the system (as they do with so many insurance plans already)

-"Why I (an economically right leaning libertarian) Prefer French Health Care" (not directly on point, but interesting and relevant, with decent commentary following)

http://pnhp.org...
full article: http://reason.com...

"For a dozen years now I've led a dual life, spending more than 90 percent of my time and money in the U.S. while receiving 90 percent of my health care in my wife's native France. On a personal level the comparison is no contest: I'll take the French experience any day. ObamaCare opponents often warn that a new system will lead to long waiting times, mountains of paperwork, and less choice among doctors. Yet on all three of those counts the French system is significantly better, not worse, than what the U.S. has now"

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I had an opponent in another debate cite this source as to whether medicare would cost more, even if administration costs would be about the same...
http://www.debate.org...

first, i'll also have to point out.... medicare is for those who are elderly etc. they will cost a lot more by virtue of that than comparing to everyone else generally, for purely health care nonadministrative costs. so it doesn't prove that we shouldnt use medicare

assuming it's true that it costs more with medicare, though, doesn't mean a single payer system isn't most economical... it means that we should not use a program that is like medicare. We could do as Europe does and have a tightly regulated insurance industry, with government involvement.
This is from the doctors for single payer link I cited above...
"The nation should listen when a prominent libertarian extolls the virtues of social insurance. Once we accept the principle of social insurance, then we can have a more rational debate over whether we want that to be a single-payer Medicare-type program or a European-style social insurance program using using private plans that are so tightly regulated that they almost function as a single payer system."

we can regulate the system to ensure redundancy and waste and not there. Basically, to be more like other single payer countries...
At the end of the day, it's well established common knowledge that single payer countries pay around ten percent GDP, and we pay seventeen percent. That's the bottom line.
AnalyticArizonan

Con

I accept the challenge
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

duly noted
AnalyticArizonan

Con

Single Payer healthcare is not an economic system. Therefore, it cannot be a better economic system than what we have now as it is not an economic system.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by fatngassy 4 years ago
fatngassy
We could, in effect, just about baklance the budget overnigt with a self-sustaining national health insurance. QWe could scrap medicare, medicaid, the 100% government-run VA Health system and the hundreds of federally-funded and county funded health clinics, all of which would be uneccessary if everyone were adequately covered.
Posted by fatngassy 4 years ago
fatngassy
We need to consolidate our health insurance for maximum efficiency and begin to realize as a nation that we have to share this resource. Coops are the cheapest option and the larger the coop the better. A basic national health insurance creates the largest coop we can muster.
Posted by fatngassy 4 years ago
fatngassy
Americans have to rely on employers, spouses, or gay lovers for health care. This leaves them with fewer optins and less flexibility than they could otherwise have if everybody was simply insured in their own right, as Americans. Furthermore, taking the onus of health care off the backs of American industry as well as overpressed state, county and local governments, would be doubly good for the American worker by decreasing his tax load. If EVERYONE helps subisdize the system through a combination of sales tax, payroll taxes and corporate earnings taxes and incorporating mandatory reasonable copays to minimize abuse, the sytem would be far, far more affordable for the working class, who now subsidize the whole shebang.
Posted by ldcon 4 years ago
ldcon
@Dairygirl

We're already engaged in an identical debate...you have an hour to post. Looking forward to your response.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 4 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
i'll also have to point out.... medicare is for those who are elderly etc. they will cost a lot more by virtue of that than other systems.
Posted by trimblco 4 years ago
trimblco
Single payer is a health care system, not an economic system.
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
the "right" type you proposed sounds like medicare
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by socialpinko 4 years ago
socialpinko
dairygirl4u2cAnalyticArizonanTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Easy win to Con. Pro provided no argument (relevant to the resolution) and when Con brought up the fact that a single payer healthcare system is not an economic system, Pro simply forfeited, thus conceding arguments and losing conduct.