The Instigator
debatefox
Pro (for)
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The Contender
kperry
Con (against)
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their are four types of christian gods

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 3/30/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 363 times Debate No: 88968
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

debatefox

Pro

Im not arguing anything an i know this is a poor use for this website but i'm am curious on what a "strong" christian has to say about my statements i want this to be more of a discussion then an argument. I have in my mind four possibilities of types of gods. each one i will discuss each one in my opening statement but i would like my opponent to focus on each one.
kperry

Con

Hello, hello. I hope I can help you out and we can have a fun time discussing this. I can say I am very interested in what you have to say, it's gotten my interest piqued.
Debate Round No. 1
debatefox

Pro

hello!!! thank you for accepting :) i am currently emotionally confessed over religion and wether or not to accept christianity into my life. so the first think i would like to discuss is how god looks to me. this is my own opions and i do not wish to offend anyone.
either god is random. he randomly exists, he randomly made planets some harsh rocky some poisonous and gas filled. he then randomly made earth where he randomly put humans on it. in this case i would like to believe in god because he is to random. it seems like he does not have any method or plans for us he just does things because
he can.

the next god i would like to discuss is the harsh mean god. he created us just to mess with us. he makes us and calls us his children but he could obviously see right now that we are in need of help. people are dying to other religions wrath who claim they are doing it in his name. we are destroying the beautiful paradise he made for us quickly. and he sits by and watches. does he not have any conscience or want to intervene . its now or never really! i understand people say we make our own choices and god wants us to learn but it is obvious to humans who are claimed to be sooo inferior to god that we cannot learn and that history repeats itself why is it not obvious to him that we wont learn and history is going to repeat its self. or does he notice and just not care. he created us in 7 days so maybe we are just his entertainment or pet project or maybe he just wanted to see if he can

the next two gods are kinda the same. both are no gods. either god does not exist and we exist because of genetics and mutations.

and next god was created by a man who either wanted to spread lessons which were taken to literally or wanted to get rich quick. either way it was genius. he created something no one could disprove or prove and forcing people to believe and pay/pray/live by his/her guidelines or pay the price.
kperry

Con

God is anything but random. That notion has been thrown around continually based on people"s lack of understanding of His ways. Yes, there are planets that we as fragile humans would consider harsh and hellish. There are around 1700 known planets now, and a scant few can maybe support life. Earth, our small planet in a relatively small system around an average sized star, is perfect to support life.
If God just does things because He can, why does he bother with us? If you could create planets on a whim and build a universe with wonders like the eagle nebula or super massive black holes, why both with humanity? It"s because He loves us, he created us for a reason. We are the only creation in existence to be made in the likeness of our Creator.

I am going to quote a man I do have a lot of respect for despite not being a Catholic myself. Bishop Robert Barron said, "God permits certain evils in his creation to bring about a greater good." History will continue to repeat itself not because God does not love us it continues because people do not love each other enough to stop it. God gave us freewill to do good and to do evil. But isn"t humanities greatest evil to sit back and watch the world suffer?

We can expand more on God existing if you wish. I"m just going to give a couple quick points here because this is a topic I could go on about for days. Point one is the historical evidence for the life of Jesus. The second is the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches that can trace their foundations back to Christ himself through Peter who was crucified in Rome under Nero Augustus. Mainly I"m bringing this up for you, and I"d be happy to expand more on this if you feel up to it outside of the debate/discussion.

The early church did a poor job of getting rich quick. Most of the apostles were martyred, Peter being crucified in Rome and Paul reportedly being beheaded. Early Christians were crucified, fed to lions, and forced to worship in secret. Though today Christianity is the largest religion in the world and people use it to make money (Joel Olsteen, for example) the vast majority of Christian"s in the Middle East and Asia are poor and face execution in places such as Syria. And of course God wanted to spread his lessons! There is an amazing book on my to read list http://www.americanminute.com... about how God"s word influenced American law.

Sources
https://www.rt.com...
https://www.youtube.com...)
http://www.bethinking.org...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.npr.org...
http://www.bbc.com...
Debate Round No. 2
debatefox

Pro

thank you for your statements. Im still not sure how god is not random. here is an idea maybe god does random things to test our faith. but how do we know god even cares. how can we be certain of it. i understand miracles happen but their are billion and billions of particles in the world and billion of trillions of events happing every second this can be understood with probability and chaos theory which explains it much better then believing their is a giant man who stares at us from the sky. i also have a problem with that. it is not ok to socially believe in ghost goblins witches or monsters but it is ok to believe in a giant mythic powerful all seeing man with absolutely no description and hard found proof other then the romans stupidity of killing anyone who believes in him (which does not prove Jesus exist just that humans are stupid and vile) that lives in a mythical place called heaven where everything is perfect. it sounds to me like a fairy tale somebody made up and people jsut started beliving it for the sake of being afraid of death and that their is not afterlife. (this may seem really offensive and i dont meant it to be at all im just really confuesed on religion and i would love to discuss those points sometime!! i would also like to talk about some of the paradox's about god somtime after the "debate")
kperry

Con

Sources
Chaos Theory
http://bjps.oxfordjournals.org...
http://faculty.missouri.edu...
Laws of Physics
https://www.spec2000.net...
http://www.tulane.edu...

I had someone explain God to me in this manner once. God made the universe, not just the universe we can see but also governs His creation. God did not just throw his creation onto a planet and say "Good luck, see you eventually when you die, maybe!" And I understand, how can so many bad things happen and God just sit back and watch? I live in an area known as tornado alley and during the storm months there is always that threat of a random column of air to destroy everything and kill us all. But we know that tornados are not a random occurrence that is just there to make us suffer. Tornado"s an unfortunate byproduct of thunderstorms that happen naturally when conditions are just right. Though it all looks random, it really isn"t. Thunderstorms form in a pattern and they will happen, guaranteed. We take precautions such as tornado shelters and lightning rods. I know this is a small example and I feel like I was rambling that point.
You can believe in ghosts and goblins and even do witchcraft if you like and believe it to whatever degree you choose. Free will is awesome like that. Free will is the only thing that will lead you to God or lead you away from him. I can give someone all the evidence within my capabilities and what knowledge I have but it isn"t my decision to make. What personally led me to God was my inherent desire to want to do good in this world. I didn"t believe in God, and I knew that his life was my only shot at happiness. But looking around my own neighborhood, even my own circle of friends, there was so much unhappiness and struggle. I had a thought of "If God exists, why doesn"t he get down here and fix this mess he made!" Then it dawned on me that I was standing right there doing absolutely nothing. As a Christian, I feel it is my duty to God to do good works. Not out of reward for heaven, but because we are called to not stand by and watch. Only one person can do so much, but if the human race were to come together and work towards the common goal of stopping world hunger for say, we could do it. However people have a habit of standing back and pointing fingers at others when we should be pointing them at ourselves.
No offense at all, I don"t get riled up.
Debate Round No. 3
debatefox

Pro

thank you :) so if i understand what your saying is maybe god is helping by putting people like you who want to help the world here. it seems like such a little step for the chaos that is going on right now. and what if it doesn't work? or does he just know it will. another point i would like to ask is if god did create the world why would he make it so complicated. if he has unlimited power couldn't he have just said life happens without creating all the atoms and elements and why would he make us need food and water. and again thank you so much for helping me out :)
kperry

Con

Little steps like helping build a house or donating food seems kind of inconsequential on the grand scale. But I remember having to rely on a food bank for groceries, I remember being homeless. Sometimes a person who is suffering needs that small step from you to get them through the day and to them that could make the difference for them to keep fighting or to give up. And you"re right, it may not be enough. I have no guarantee that the world is going to get any better while I"m alive, it may very well get worse. But my faith is my armor that keeps me fighting. As long as humanity keeps making poor choices and engage in the extreme cruelty that covers our news then people will continue to suffer. The ball is in our court with the state of the world. Is that fair? No. But the price of freedom is always high. God loved us enough to let us be free to make our choices and to face the consequences of our choices.
Now as to why we need food and water, I apologize if this comes out really awful sounding. The human body is like an engine that we made to put in cars. We have to have maintenance when we break, we need fuel to keep going. Unlike an engine though we have souls and that is the perfect creation. But we are alive here on Earth, and our bodies must follow the laws that govern the universe. We have to eat, we have to drink, and we have to sleep. The universe itself is so awesome in its beauty and I could literally go on and on about the science of the planets and of elements and physics. There is so much because it is the foundation of our physical existence, the atoms and elements are the building blocks of which everything is built.
I hope this helped.

On a side not for you, this is an awesome video I would highly recommend.
https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 4
debatefox

Pro

debatefox forfeited this round.
kperry

Con

I hope I was able to help you out some and if you ever want to do this again I am up for it.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by debatefox 10 months ago
debatefox
thank you :)
Posted by kperry 10 months ago
kperry
Hey that's fine technical difficulties happen.
Posted by debatefox 10 months ago
debatefox
ill try volentering for a few food shelters and things like that i also have a few more questions im going to privet message you about. this deffinatly makes me feel better towards the idea of god.
Posted by debatefox 10 months ago
debatefox
so sorry!!!!!! my computer didn't load your side of the argument until it was to late :(
Posted by Calebss 10 months ago
Calebss
Goodluck opposing side.
No votes have been placed for this debate.