The Instigator
induced
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TheSaint
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

there is a reasonable solution to the "grandfather paradox"

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
TheSaint
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/12/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,972 times Debate No: 30169
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

induced

Con

"a time traveler went back in time to the time when his grandfather had not had children yet. At that time, the time traveler kills his grandfather, and therefore, the time traveler is never born, and therefore could have never killed his grandfather, but since he didnt kill his grandfather, he would have ended up being born after-all and going on to kill his grandfather, and so on..."

my position is that this is an unsolvable paradox

PROs purpose is to give possible solutions to this alleged paradox (other than backwards time-travel being impossible) and i will try to refute them. the alleged paradox itself implies an argument in my favor, so you should present your arguments in the first round.
TheSaint

Pro

The "Grandfather Paradox" was created with the concept of a linear timeline in mind. This complies with our general perception of time since we experience it linearly as in, we experience birth, childhood, adulthood, and then death in a linear pattern, we can for example remember the past but not remember the future. The issue is though that in reality time does not move in this linear pattern.

With the multi-verse theory it is supposed that we live in an infinite amount of realities that compose of every single theoretical possible reality. So for example today you woke up and chose to walk to work, there is a universe where you skip, where you kill your boss and every other possible outcome that could potentially occur. That is the general gist of the multiverse theory, at it's core it means that every possibility, in an alternate universe, is an actuality.

So, moving that into the grandfather paradox, after this time traveler kills his grandfather he does not cease to exist like Marty Mcfly in back to the future, he simply moves himself into an alternate universe in which he had gone back in time and killed his grandfather. Would he then hop back into his time machine and return to his old present it would not be the one he left. He would not be alive, and any other effects as a result of his grandfather's death would have occurred in that person's future and that would become the new universe that exists as reality.

This is a plausible solution to the grandfather paradox. Resolution affirmed.

:D
Debate Round No. 1
induced

Con

the following cannot both be true:
1. Fry kills his grandfather before said grandfather has any kids
2. Frys' grandfather has kids

you can say that Frys grandfather has kids, and in an alternate universe, a nearly identical grandfather did not have kids, but these are different people. since both Frys and/or both grandfathers are different people, your argument doesnt solve the paradox. the question isnt "can Fry kill his alternate self's grandfather?", or "can Fry end up in a universe in which his alternate self had killed his own grandfather?", the question is "could Fry have killed his own grandfather?".
TheSaint

Pro

In my scenario this time traveler did kill his own grandfather. He went back in time, killed his own grandfather, and as a result created a split in the space time continuum creating a new reality in the future. He did kill his own grandfather, but in doing so he moved himself into an alternate reality.

You still are thinking of time linearly, this "Fry" kills his grandfather, and switches realities. Since it's a paradox this is the only logical conclusion.

So yes, Fry has killed his own grandfather and not destroyed the universe and logic.
Debate Round No. 2
induced

Con

if Fry killed his grandfather, then he wouldnt have been born. if he transfers into a different reality/timeline, i dont see how that would solve that paradox any more than if he teleported to a different city.

ask yourself, "can these statements both be true?"
1. Bob had children
2. Bob never had children

obviously no, but according to your theory, both are true if Bob is the grandfather of Fry. the only logical conclusion is that one cannot kill ones grandfather before he has kids. this would easily be explained by a worldview that entails backwards time-travel being impossible.
TheSaint

Pro

"ask yourself, "can these statements both be true?"
1. Bob had children
2. Bob never had children"

But that's the beauty of the Multi-verse theory! In some reality both of these statements are true allowing for all versions of reality to simultaneously exist. It's not as though Bob would teleport to some alternative dimension, he would simply continue to live and exist in a divergent reality in which Bob had killed his grandfather.

It doesn't prove backwards time travel to be impossible, it proves the conventional linear flow of time to be impossible.

I would like to thank my opponent for this interesting debate, I believe I have won as I have created a plausible explanation for the grandfather's paradox through use of the multiverse theory. My opponent's sole rebuttal has been to fall back upon conventional linear timeline thinking and it is possible that this is reality, but the multiverse elastic flow of time is an equally plausible explanation and refutes the "grandfather's paradox"

I believe that I have created a plausible explanation for this paradox, and would urge you to vote in the affirmation.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by TheSaint 4 years ago
TheSaint
You take a very philosophical approach to time travel. You might be right, but I actually do believe that time manipulation is possible, whether or not it is possible for larger particles of matter to travel back in time i'm not sure. But time manipulation is not only provided for but required under most modern day theories of physics such as the theory of relativity.
Posted by charleslb 4 years ago
charleslb
Well, it's most certainly the case that "there is a reasonable solution to the 'grandfather paradox' ", mm-hmm, it's called the plain, absolute, utter impossibility of time travel into the past; it's the recognition that sci-fi-like time travel being precisely that, science fiction and not science fact, the question is altogether academic and pointless unless it functions along the lines of a koan, serving to exasperate one's mind with, and snap it out of, the rut of overly rationalistic thinking; making a transcendental epiphany, a spiritual gestalt switch to a more insightful way of seeing things possible. Time, after all, is nothing less or other than the creative process of each moment and event inventing itself, so to speak, by synthesizing experience into a new configuration of choice, responsiveness, and actuality. Time is the ongoing evolution and straight-line succession of such moments & events, i.e., time is indeed and entirely a linear proposition, ergo the only form of time travel possible is our normal linear progression from now to now, traveling in reverse from now to then, or leaping ahead to a now that hasn't yet been invented is, well, quite simply ruled out and contemplating such possibilities is at best nothing more than a philosophical exercise that one can hopefully avail oneself of as a gateway to a more penetrating perception of reality.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by TrasguTravieso 4 years ago
TrasguTravieso
inducedTheSaintTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's argument is not entirely convincing, but it at does show there is a reasonable line of argumentation that could avoid the "grandfather paradox"
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
inducedTheSaintTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: TheSaint explained how the multiverse theory of time/space works and conveniently addresses the grandfather paradox and other seemingly paradoxical events that can happen when you introduce time travel. induced seemed not to understand, as his round four argument still maintained: "bob had kids / bob didn't have kids / how can they both be true?"