The Instigator
biokuta7
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
shoutevenshy
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

third wave feminists have no point

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
biokuta7
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/11/2015 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 453 times Debate No: 79623
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

biokuta7

Pro

My position is that third wave feminists as a group have crumbling narrative and nonexistent morals, and that in the first world, feminism isn't needed anymore.
First round for accepting the challenge, rounds 2-4 are for arguments/rebuttals, and the final fifth round is for final statements.
shoutevenshy

Con

It is very true that some of those that call themselves feminists have taken it too far. However, saying feminism isn't necessary anymore is far from true. Even though we've come a long we, we are not finished.

1. Women have their rights, there is nothing more to do there. However, consider the fact that there are only 20 women out of a 100 members in the senate. (source: http://www.senate.gov... )
and out of 435 members in congress there are just over 100 women (source: http://members-of-congress.insidegov.com...) Judging from that there are close to 50 per cent of females and males in most societies, shouldn't it be more equal in the places where the laws are made? furthermore, there has never been a female US president, ever. Out of 45 male presidents (15 since women were granted the right to vote) there has not been a single female? In my opinion this is a clear sign that we have not won over sexism yet, however this is not men's fault alone - women don't vote for women, we are doing is to ourselves because we don't believe in ourselves.

2. 5. Women's earnings are 80 per cent compared to men's, I have a very reliable source here: http://www.bls.gov......

It is very true that women earn 4/5 of what men do.

Even though I as a woman have the right to do anything a man would like, looking at society there is an unbalance between the sexes. To fix that is the next goal in the feminist movement.
Debate Round No. 1
biokuta7

Pro

I said first round is only for accepting the challenge but that's okay...

Rebuttal to 1: There is no reason that there aren't as many women in political jobs other than the fact that on average, woman don't want to go into that field. Sure, there ARE many women who are willing, but these are a minority. The truth of the matter is, women on average stay away from demanding jobs.
It's unfair to say that women don't have many jobs in leadership positions because of a sexist society, when, in actuality, it's just because women on average avoid jobs in fields like that. Same goes for STEM fields, women are just generally less likely to go into there.

Rebuttal to 2: The infamous "Wage Gap." It's been disproved at least a million times, but seems to still pop up every now and then. Well, I'll make my points for why it's illogical then link some links.
1. If the wage gap existed, why would companies even hire men? If they really payed women 20% less for the same work, they could save literally 20% of expenses by only hiring women.
2. It's federally illegal to discriminate based on gender, race, etc. If the wage gap was as prevalent as you describe, companies would be facing WAY more lawsuits than they do.
3. The 80 cents for a dollar uses horrible statistics in order to make a claim. Instead of calculating wages, they calculated earnings. Now let me explain the difference: Wage is how much one earns per hour, month, year, etc. Earning is how much money one makes in their lifetime. It's true that men EARN 20% more on average, but that is because on average, men retire later and work longer hours.
https://www.youtube.com...
http://www.thedailybeast.com...
http://www.cbsnews.com...
In fact, women have a better chance than men at getting paid MORE than the opposite sex because companies need to fill up quotas in order to achieve tax breaks.
shoutevenshy

Con

I seriously doubt that is true, and I am gonna prove it isn't. The first country in the world to get their first female president was Iceland, V"gdis Finnbogad"ttir was elected president in 1980 to 1996. (source: http://english.forseti.is...) Denmark got their first female president in 2011, Helle Thorning Schmidt and with her were 70 women out of 179 members of the danish parliament (source: http://www.politiko.dk...) That means the danish parliament is 40% women, DOUBLE compared to the US congress and senate. The British parliament is 30% women, Sweden a shocking 44.6%, Belgium 39.3%, EU parliament is 35.2% women. (source: http://www.ft.dk...) US can't compare to these numbers, they are HALF most of them, and that is a very clear sign why feminism is MOST needed in America.

The american women are not uninterested in these kind of jobs, you are simply later in the process as a country to accept women in these jobs. This can have something to do with the fact that America was relatively late to give their women the right to vote compared to other countries. The 19th amendment was passed in 1920, Denmark allowed women to vote in 1915, Norway 1913, Finland 1906 (my source is an article with a map of europe and as you swipe through the countries it will list the year women got the right to vote: http://nyhederne.tv2.dk...

You obviously don't understand the wage gap. The reason why companies hire men is not because they make more as individuals, but as a gender. Combine all the wages by men and all the wages by women they, as a gender, get 80% less.
It's illegal to discriminate, however it's done daily.

I'm out of characters!
Debate Round No. 2
biokuta7

Pro

I'm going to start with wage gap.
I think you misunderstood what I said about the wage gap. You say "The reason why companies hire men is not because they make more as individuals, but as a gender." Now, I never said anything about men making more money for the company and being more fruitful. This isn't true. What I did say was this: ON AVERAGE, men tend to earn more than women.
Earning: How much money you make in your lifetime.

Wage: How much money you make per hour, month, or year.

Did I make that clear? Men and women have the same wage, just that men tend to earn more because they retire later and work longer hours than women. The infamous "80 cents per dollar" is comparing earnings rather than wage.

http://www.forbes.com...

This has nothing to do with companies hiring men. In fact, women have a GREATER chance of being hired by companies, specifically 3 to 1, because companies get tax breaks if they have specific amounts of girl employees. In other words, a company may hire a woman less experienced than a man solely because of her gender.
Gender equality, eh?

Now, on to jobs, specifically political jobs.
I would quickly like to point out that low-class jobs such as construction, janitorial, and services all have more men doing the hard work. But we can overlook that, can't we?
Presidents in America have always been a touchy subject because we haven't had a good one in a while. It isn't that society thinks girls can't become president, it's that a hopeful female just hasn't come along. In fact, society would be glad to introduce a female president! Take Hillary Clinton. Whether or not she is going to be a good president is uncertain, but many of her die-hard followers do so only because she is a woman.

Now voting and jobs are two totally different things. Comparing when women started voting to their jobs isn't correct; apples to oranges.

Aaaaand no more characters.
shoutevenshy

Con

shoutevenshy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
biokuta7

Pro

do you fully forfeit or...?
shoutevenshy

Con

shoutevenshy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
biokuta7

Pro

biokuta7 forfeited this round.
shoutevenshy

Con

shoutevenshy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by fdsa 1 year ago
fdsa
Cite the consad report's findings that the gender pay gap is due to women's choice, or use the National Bureau of Economic Research's findings on the reason for a gender pay gap is women's lack of salary negotiation.

You can't use conjecture against facts. The gender pay gap is a myth.
Posted by Sarra 1 year ago
Sarra
In Denmark, can you walk around topless without getting arrested?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
biokuta7shoutevenshyTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by TheQuestionMark 1 year ago
TheQuestionMark
biokuta7shoutevenshyTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: More ff on con.