The Instigator
benshapirohero
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TheAccuser
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

transgenders are misguided- there's no denying biology

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/11/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 366 times Debate No: 94618
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

benshapirohero

Pro

I'm new to this, so go EZ on me! ;)

Well, I'll get right down to it then.
1. We're born either female or male.
2. Both genders differ significantly. (Think chromosomes, genitalia, brain structure)
3. There's no changing you're genetic makeup.
4. So gender is unalterable.

A transgender with false beliefs about his/herself suffers from a delusion, and may have an underlying mental illness.
(Think of an anorexic who thinks they're fat when they're really not.)

The right thing to do is not indulge transgenders' delusions, just as we shouldn't tell anorexics they're fat.

Lastly, everyone is equal, so transgenders should also be treated with love, compassion, and affection.
TheAccuser

Con

1. Gender is social whereas sex is biological. In the case of transgender people, they have genders that are not traditionally associated with their sexes.

2. Yes, and this is probably a cause of gender dysphoria. There is significant evidence that transgender people have a form of brain-intersexedness. Example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

3. This doesn't matter since gender is social and sex is biological.

4. Both gender and sex are alterable. Gender is social, and sex is bendable. Hormones can alter your body significantly to the point that it's like an artificially intersex body.

5. Being transgender is not a belief.

6. Humiliating and insulting people is the opposite of treating them kindness.
Debate Round No. 1
benshapirohero

Pro

"sex is bendable."
Not really. Think of Caitlyn Jenner.
Every cell in his body, accept his sperm cells have Y chromosomes. His body's full of testosterone, he's got male genitals, and most importantly, he thinks like a man because he's go a man's brain. No scientist can alter all of this.

I'm sorry, but it's delusional of him to think he's a woman. Facts don't care about his feelings.
There's no challenging biology and reality. (And I promise you, biology and reality will always win.)

"Humiliating and insulting people is the opposite of kindness."
Acknowledging a mental disorder should never be humiliating. It's the first step in fixing a problem.
The real crime would be denying a person treatment to make them feel better about themselv
TheAccuser

Con

1. Caitlyn Jenner's body IS NOT full of testosterone. It is now full of estrogen and progesterone. I'm not sure if she still has her old genitalia. If chromosomes are the sole identifier of your sex, this lady is a man. https://www.youtube.com...

2. How does Caitlyn Jenner "think like a man?"

3. I already told you that gender is social and sex is biological. You have decided to ignore this information, and that is cheating.

4. The American Psychological Association is the major authority on psychology in North America. They are the experts on what is and isn't a mental illness and how mental illnesses should be treated. They do not consider being transgender to be a mental disorder. Proof: http://www.apa.org...
Debate Round No. 2
benshapirohero

Pro

" 1. Caitlyn Jenner's body IS NOT full of testosterone"
You're right- my bad ;)
"I'm not sure if she still has her old genitalia."
Yep, he sure does.
"If chromosomes are the sole identifier of your sex, this lady is a man."
thank you sir!

"2. How does Caitlyn Jenner think like a man?"
He has a guy's brain.

"3. I already told you that gender is social and sex is biological."
I agree with you. However, gender shouldn't counter sex.
That's why transgenders are delusional.

"4. The American Psychological Association...do(es) not consider being transgender to be a mental disorder."
The APA is infested with political correctness. As a result, they're denying sick people treatment in hopes of not offending transgenders.
TheAccuser

Con

1. What does, "thank you sir!" mean? Does it mean that you do consider the intersex lady a man based on her chromosomes alone? If sex is determined solely by something invisible to the naked eye, why do you think it matters in society? Is that lady's relationship with her husband a gay relationship, then?

2. "He has a guy's brain." This is not a real answer. I asked you how, as in what ways, does Caitlyn think like a man? Can you give a specific answer that isn't based on gender stereotypes?

3. "gender shouldn't counter sex." What does it mean for gender to counter sex? If you're going to use unusual wording, you have to define it first.

4. "The APA is infested with political correctness." Evidence, please?
Debate Round No. 3
benshapirohero

Pro

"1. What does, 'thank you sir!, mean?"
You previously made my point for me, so thank you.

"If sex is determined solely by something invisible to the naked eye, why do you think it matters in society?"
Because genes are the blueprints of who we are, and determine what gender we are. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's irrelevant. (atoms)

"'2. He has a guy's brain.' This is not a real answer."
Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it not a real answer.
Facts stay true, whether you like them or not.
And the simple fact is Caitlyn has got a man's brain because he was born a man and still is a man.
I'm sure you know male and female brains are structurally different.
TheAccuser

Con

1. I provided you with a video if an intersex woman. An intersex person was born with physical traits of both sexes. That lady didn't even find out she was intersex until she was an adult. If she's a man for no reason besides her chromosomes, what are you getting at with this entire debate?

2. "Because genes are the blueprints of who we are, and determine what gender we are." You mean like the intersex lady whose body is immune to testosterone?

3. A statement is not automatically a fact. Here is a fact: there is growing evidence that transgender people have an intersex condition of the brain. Proof:
https://www.sciencedaily.com...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Debate Round No. 4
benshapirohero

Pro

You and I know very that very few people are intersex. Also, everyone has one sex. So in they're case, if they have a Y chromosome, they're male. If they don't, they're female.
And anyways, this is a transgender debate.

"here is growing evidence that transgender people have an intersex condition of the brain. Proof:"
I wouldn't throw around the word proof. There's may be proof for growing evidence, but no proof that transgenders have an intersex condition of the brain.
I'm sure you know that as far as science goes, its almost impossible to prove anything.

I thought I'd end by saying I'm going to be a great psychologist one day.
Don't worry, I probably won't get many transgenders at my door since they're not looking to be cured
allthebest
TheAccuser

Con

I accidentally tricked you because I just realized that two of my three bottom links didn't work. You didn't point this out, so you must not have tried my links. I will post the links again, this time with spaces.

https:// www.sciencedaily.com/ releases/2014/05/ 140528163753. htm
http:// www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/ 20562024
http:// www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/ 21195418

1. The rareness of something doesn't de-legitimize it for making a point.

2. If someone has XXY chromosomes, which some people do, what sex are they?

3. Good luck in your endeavors, but your choice of wording suggests that you were merely trying to get under my skin this entire time. I'd like to make one more point- "transgender" is an adjective.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by YourMomoness 6 months ago
YourMomoness
Oops, I am an idiot. I'm sorry.
Posted by whiteflame 6 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: YourMomoness// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Pro (Conduct, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: No, I am not being biased,I think you two did well and congratulations.

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD. Merely stating that you are not biased doesn't explain either point allocation.
************************************************************************
Posted by benshapirohero 6 months ago
benshapirohero
vote me momo
Posted by YourMomoness 6 months ago
YourMomoness
Someone finally gets it! Thank you benshapirohiro.
Posted by benshapirohero 6 months ago
benshapirohero
thank you momo. Aang would be proud.
Posted by YourMomoness 6 months ago
YourMomoness
I honestly don't understand "being transgender". People are allowed to like things associated with the other gender without being it.
Posted by MagicAintReal 6 months ago
MagicAintReal
You might be confusing gender and sex...might want to supply definitions for relevant terms in the debate too.
No votes have been placed for this debate.