The Instigator
Artur
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
daley
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

trinity['s concept] exists in the bible

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Artur
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/3/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 859 times Debate No: 45123
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

Artur

Con

Hello everybody. I am going to start a new debate, about trinity.. triune god [of christians].
The doctrine or concept of the Trinity is central to most Christian denominations and faith groups, although not all.


DEFINITION:
trinity: 1. Trinity Theology In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also calledTrine. http://bit.ly...
2.
according to this definition of wikipedia, trinity is composed of the father, the son and the holy spirit. [if this picture is too small to be seen, you may visit this link: http://upload.wikimedia.org...]
and according to the same definition, the father is god, the son is also god and the spirit is also god. [seen from picture]
url adress:
http://bit.ly...

considering the definition given by wikipedia, I can say that: 3 of that 3 are god.

for debate, I will ask my opponent to show us that the trinity or its concept exists in the bible. I ask him/her to show us verse[s] or references from the bible. PRO needs to show us verses/reference from the bible that:
  1. talks about the godness of the father.
  2. talks about the godness of the son.
  3. talks about the godness of the hole spirit.

RULES:
1. anybody can accept this debate but it would be better if my opponent is a christian who believes in triune god exists in the bible.
2. forfeits are allowed, if one side forfeits he may answer on next round.
3. when my opponent, PRO sets his arguements, number of arguements presented in one round must NOT be more than 5 so that I will have no character insufficiency. [if opponent violates this rule, I ask voters to keep it in mind.]
4. no defamation, insulting or personal attack. [if any of us violates this, I ask voters to penalise him/her]
5. since PRO will talk after me, he does not have to present new arguement[s] in th elast round.

5 rounds, 8000 character. we have 72 hours to argue.
no need to waste round for acceptance, PRO may start from first round. btw, I hope I didnot forget any rule or smth to write.

bonus: there are so many rumours that "the quran permits/commands muslims to kill innocent people of nonmuslims". as a person who read the quran and not muslim, I can say that quran doesnot. if anybody wants to debate this, he may challenge, I will accept it.

daley

Pro

(1) Jesus is called God, but since there is only one God, Jesus must be that one God or else he is a false God:
The Scriptures proclaim that there is one, and only one God in all of existence. (Deu 4:35; Isa 43:10-11; 44:6, 8; 45:5-6, 14, 21-22; 46:9; Mal 2:10; Rom 3:30; 1 Cor 8:6; Eph 4:6; Jam 2:19) It also says that there is only one true God. (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20) This means that all other gods are false. Since there is only one God, then no other being can truly be a god. This is why they are false gods. Now, Scripture plainly identifies the Son as God in John 20:28. The term "my God" refers to the true God every other time it is used in the Bible, establishing the consistent linguistic use of the term. Thomas here calls Jesus in the Greek, ho kurious mou kai ho theos mou, literally, the Lord of me and the God of me. So John 20:28 calls Jesus the God of Thomas, and in verse 29 Jesus approves. Now since there is only one true God, either Jesus was the true God in John 20:28, or a false god. Which is it? I look forward to my opponents answer. But Jesus is also identified as God in Isaiah 9:6. So which is it: is he a true god, or a false god? If he is a true god, then he must be the Almighty, for there is only one true God, not two; if he is a false god, we are not saved, for no pretender could save us.

I must at this point mention the Granville Sharp rule of Greek grammar. This rule states that when there are 2 nouns that are both singular which describe a person, and these nouns are connected by the word "and," the first noun having the article, the second noun not having the article then they refer to the SAME PERSON. (*Note that the nouns cannot be personal names*) There is absolutely no exception to this rule in all of the Greek New Testament. Having stated this rule I find it necessary to present two verses of scripture that unequivocally qualify Jesus as both God and Savior.

Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope"the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, (NIV)

2Peter 1:1 - Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: (NIV)

Notice in both verses the noun "God" (theou) has the article (tou) and is connected to the second noun "Savior" (soteros) which does not have an article, by the word "and" (kai). Thus "God and Savior" both refer to the Person of Jesus. Grammatically this is irrefutable. So not only is Jesus Savior, He is God! So I think I have made a good case that Jesus is definitely God, and since there is only one God, then the Father and the Son must be one God. Now, onto the Holy Spirit.

(2) There is only one Creator: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit:
Isa 44:24 tells us that Yahweh made all things, streached out the heavens alone, spread out the earth by himself; yet Scripture reveals the Father as creator (Isa 64:8), and the Son (Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 8-10), and the Holy Spirit (Ps 104:30; Job 26:13; 33:4) Combine this with the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:16 and the trinitarian has an airtight case. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not one God with the Father, then God the Father had help and did not create all things alone, by himself, as he said in Isaiah 44:24. If the trinity is true, harmony comes to the texts.

(3) God is the only Savior, so being the Savior means Jesus is God:
At Isaiah 43:11 Yahweh declares, "I myself am Yahweh and besides me there is no Savior." (WEB) Scripture tells us plainly that Jesus is the Savior. (Matt 1:21; Lu 2:11; Acts 4:12; 2 Tim 1:10; Tit 1:4; 2 Pet 1:11, etc) So is Jesus Yahweh himself, or is he another Savior besides Yahweh? Which is it? If he is Yahweh, then he must be one Yahweh with the Father. For there is only one Yahweh. (Deu 6:4) If he is not Yahweh, then he is another savior besides Yahweh, and Yahweh was lying when he claimed to be the only Savior. Which is it? Acts 4:12 says of Jesus, that "there is no salvation in anyone else." Now, if Jesus is not God, then there can be no salvation in God, for there is no salvation in anyone else but Jesus.

(4) The Holy Spirit has the attributes of God and is called God:
That the Holy Spirt is God and Lord is clearly stated in the Scriptures. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor 3:17) The Holy Spirit has the same attributes of diety as the Father and the Son:
The Father is eternal (Ps 90:2), and the Son (Isa 9:6; Mic 5:2), and the Holy Spirit (Heb 9:14)
The Father is omniscient (1 John 3:20), and the Son (John 16:30; 21:17), and the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 2:10-11)
The Father is omnipresent (1 Kings 8:27; Ps 137:8-18), and the Son (Matt 18:20), and the Holy Spirit. (Ps 137:7)
The Father is omnipotent (Dan 4:35), and the Son (Matt 28:18; John 17:10), and the Holy Spirit (Isa 40:12-18)

(5) There is no one like God, but Jesus is just like God:
In Isaiah 46:9 God says there is on one like him; but Jesus says if you have seen him, you have seen the Father, and Paul describes him as the image of God, and the impress image of his person. (John 14:6-9; Col 1:15; Hebrews 1:3)

Summary: I have shown the deity or godhood of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit from the Bible. I have also shown there is only one God from the Bible. Trinity proved.
Debate Round No. 1
Artur

Con

Thank you for your answers, the first thing I would like to say about the arguement of my opponent: seems that he misunderstood the challenge: I did not ask him to prove that Jesus or any other two is god. I asked him to give verses/references which talk about the deity of fatehr, god and spirit. in the first arguement of his, he brought verses about the godness of Jesus and asked me to reply, I do not need reply in this debate, since the debate is to show verses, not to clarify nor analyse them.

RESPONSES:
1. PRO showed me verses which talk about Jesus as god, I agree with him and I see no need to [try to] refute or answer him. so, with the first arguement of his, he completed 1/3 of the challenge: HE talked about the godness of the SON. remaining two. even me can give everal verses about JEsus a god from the epistles.
____________________________________________________________________________________

2. int he second arguement of HIS, PRO showed me[/us] verses which talk about the godness of the father the god.

but he said: {yet Scripture reveals the Father as creator (Isa 64:8), and the Son (Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 8-10), and the Holy Spirit (Ps 104:30; Job 26:13; 33:4) }
since he showed us the verses about the godness of Jesus[/son] and Yahweh[/father] I see no need to talk about them, I am going to talk about the spirit here. [underlined part.]

PRO gave this references: Ps 104:30; Job 26:13; 33:4

Now, I am going to copy ps104:30 first:
Psalm 104:30

New International Version (NIV)



30 When you send your Spirit,
they are created,
and you renew the face of the ground. http://www.biblegateway.com...

this verse does not say unambiguously that the spirit is the creator. by using ambiguous interpretations this verse can be interpreted as "it says that the spirit is creator" but even PRO shows us that it says spirit is creator, then he does not complete the challenge for the godness of spirit, all he will do is to show that spirit is also creator, but the challenge is to show reference which talks about the godness of the spirit, not his creativity.

and at the same time he will make one more contradiction to the bible [if this contradiction is not already discovered]

the contradiction can be made by this interpretation is: is Yahweh the creator of all things by himself?
Isaiah 44:24 says: yes, he created everything by himself. I am the Lord,
the Maker of all things,
who stretches out the heavens,
who spreads out the earth by myself
this verse says: no. there are somethings created by not Yahweh, spirit.
When you send your Spirit,
they are created,
and you renew the face of the ground.



job26:13
By his breath the skies became fair;
his hand pierced the gliding serpent.

it does not say the spirit is creator.

then, he said: {Combine this with the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:16 and the trinitarian has an airtight case. }
first of all, this is not plural of numbers, in semantic languages it is plural of degree/respect. I can speak 1 semiti language [but not hebrew], in languages like this, when you are talking with somebody and if you consider yourself as greater than him then instead of I "we" is used. For example:

if I am a general of the army and you are an ordinary soldier, then when I am talking to you I will say: "Listen to us" instead of listen to me.


but if my opponent is going to say "no, I do not accept this definition of yours" then that verse does not become triunity, triunity is one thing, but "us and our is for more than one."

I can use that verse for "MONOTHEISM", for consistency, he needs to agree that christianity is monotheistic religion because in genesis1:16 god said "us and our" which means more than one gods. and monotheism is not trinity. in both ways, this does not become trinity.

then my opponent said: {If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not one God with the Father, then God the Father had help and did not create all things alone, by himself, as he said in Isaiah 44:24. If the trinity is true, harmony comes to the texts.}
so, one more absurdity of the bible but I will talk about this part:
so, the thing my opponent himslef showed us is not the godness of spirit, he showed us one more error of the bible. the thing he showed us is: In Isaiah44:24 the father says that he is the only creator {by saying: "by myself"}

to correct it, PRO needs to show us where it is said that HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD, if he cant, then he will have shown us one more error of the bible.

(3) with the third arguement of him, he again used some verses about the godness of jesus, I agree with him, when we look at the epistles from new testament we can read that in several places Jesus is written as god. since the aim of the is NOT to discuss/clarify/debate whetther is true or not, I dont need to refute or reply these, I say: PRO one more time completed the challenge for the godness of Jesus. [/son]


(4) in the 4th arguement of his my opponent said: {(4) The Holy Spirit has the attributes of God}
Does it answer the challenge? no, it does not. having the same attrobute does not mean that that two are the same thing, since diffrent things may have the attribute of each other, it does not complete the challenge. and then he went on:
{and is called God:}
He is called GOD but by whom?

and my opponent gave verses/references:
{(Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor 3:17}
first, acts5:3-4: Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

it
doesnot say "HOLY spirit is god", it can be interpreted in this way but at the same time it can be otherwise. if my Opponent can show us how it says spirit is god, I can interprete and show that it says otherwise.

2cor2:17:
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

I hope we all know the diffrence between god and lord. but for the sake of debate:
lord is generally used for persons who are of higher rank in society. Lord is a title bestowed upon persons who rule others. this is my definition.

maybe, by some christians the word lord is used to refer to god, but being used in this way by christians does not make it the same thing. so, this verse does not say that spirit is god.

and then he gave some similarities or same attributes of GOD&SON&SPIRIT, by this he argues that it is reference for the godness of the SPIRIT.
{The Father is eternal (Ps 90:2), and the Son (Isa 9:6; Mic 5:2), and the Holy Spirit (Heb 9:14)
The Father is omniscient (1 John 3:20), and the Son (John 16:30; 21:17), and the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 2:10-11)
The Father is omnipresent (1 Kings 8:27; Ps 137:8-18), and the Son (Matt 18:20), and the Holy Spirit. (Ps 137:7)
The Father is omnipotent (Dan 4:35), and the Son (Matt 28:18; John 17:10), and the Holy Spirit (Isa 40:12-18)}
having the same attributes does not mean that that things are the same one thing.
for example, people breathe and at the same time donkeys also breathe. does it mean that donkeys are people or people are donkeys?

so, this similarities or same attributes does not mean that they are one thing.

(5)in the fifth arguement of his, he again talked about the godness of Jesus. in fact, I consider this arguement is wrong but I dont need to refute this since I agreed with PRO that he showed us verses from bible that talk about the godness of SON[/jesus]

SUMMARY:
PRO has shown the godness of son and father but he has not shown the reference talk about the godness of spirit.

all he did is to interprete some verses as if it says that spirit is god.

additional:
sometimes when I quoted my opponent, I shortened to have character sufficiency or to avoid character insufficiency.

good luck.

daley

Pro

daley forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Artur

Con

since we are allowed to forfeit, I guess my opponent will come with answers in next round.

I am con this debate and in this round I have no burden from previous one, hence I am going to present some arguements of mine against Trinity, my opponent will reply to it.

Christians are amazing, Bible does not contain any explicit mention of the doctrine of Trinity, though there are several fragments claimed to indirectly support it. EVEN THOUGH There are also several fragments that appear to explicitly deny it, STILL THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR THEM.


(1)
passages contradict trinity "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." mark13:32 NIV
if father and spirit and son was ONE, then let us consider that Jesus broke his divinity and at that time Jesus was not one with spirit&father, now we conclude that: Father and spirit was one.
if that two were one, then the spirit could have known due to oneness, but the verse says: ONLY FATHER KNOWS IT. this contradicts the oneness of spirit&father. {I am not including Jesus since we accepted him not god at that time.}

JOhn17:3 reads:
"Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent"

here, Jesus [himself] says that "father is the only true GOD." it contradicts the trinity due to according to trinity Spirit is also god, jesus says "ONLY"
we may conclude that this words of Jesus is against the godness of the spirit [and also godness of him].

(2)interpreting trinity with logic rationally[1]:

(I hope this image will be available to see, if not available: http://rationalwiki.org...)

The shield presents the following 12 statements simultaneously:

  1. "The Father is God"
  2. "The Son is God"
  3. "The Holy Spirit is God"
  4. "God is the Father"
  5. "God is the Son"
  6. "God is the Holy Spirit"
  7. "The Father is not the Son"
  8. "The Son is not the Father"
  9. "The Father is not the Holy Spirit"
  10. "The Holy Spirit is not the Father"
  11. "The Son is not the Holy Spirit"
  12. "The Holy Spirit is not the Son

Since \forall A,B \in X: \left(A \subseteq B \and B \subseteq A\right) \Rightarrow A = B, the statements 1-6 can be restated as follows:

God = Father
God = Son
God = Holy Spirit

while the statements 7-12 can be restated as:
Father ≠ SonFather ≠ Holy SpiritSon ≠ Holy Spirit

Conventional logic says that equality is transitive: \forall A,B,C \in X: \left( A = B \and B = C \right) \Rightarrow A = C. Let's start from one of the "is not" relations.

Father ≠ Son

Now let's substitute the left side with the statement "God = Father":

God ≠ Son

and then substitute the right side with "God = Son":

God ≠ God

Further application of transitivity leads to the following statements:

Son ≠ Son
Father ≠ Father
Holy Spirit ≠ Holy Spirit

We conclude that God is not God, and so the doctrine of the Trinity implies that God as well as all three persons of the Trinity violate the law of identity. One of the fundamental assumptions of conventional logic is that objects that violate the law of identity do not exist: there is no entity that is not itself. This means several things:

  • If Trinity is true, then God does not exist, and neither do any of his three persons.
  • If God exists, then by the law of noncontradiction Trinity is a false doctrine.
  • If God exists and Trinity is true, it can mean two things:
    • Logic is meaningless, because it is possible to prove anything, including the existence and the non-existence of God.
    • Trinity means something else than its Christian definition.



in round one, my opponent brought things which he interpreted and used them as if they support trinity, after that I wanted to present this arguement against him, in first round with his arguement#2 he did it, as he did I also used this as an arguement. even if he brings up [which he didnt in two rounds] verses from the bible which completes the challenge of:

verses/reference from the bible that:

  1. talks about the godness of the father.
  2. talks about the godness of the son.
  3. talks about the godness of the hole spirit.

then this analys of rational wiki destroys it.



(3) video I want to recommend to watch:




*these are not arguement and has no relation with the topic, I just offered it, opponent does not need to refute this according to the debate purpose.

I think these are enough.

source:

daley

Pro

daley forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Artur

Con

in fact, PRO needs to set arguements for the existence of trnity['s concept] in the bible but since he has been forfeiting for 2 rounds, I am going to set my arguements which are against trinity so that the purpose of the debate will be met, the debate is to clarify whether trinity is supported by bible or protested by bible. he has shown 2/3 of the challenge, remaining one is the godness of spirit in the bible.

I dont know why my opponent forfeited, considering we are allowed to forfeit I think he will come with answers, but I dont want to waste this round, I am goiing to present 2-3 arguements from the bible which contradict the doctrine of trinity.

1) according to the arguement of my opponent, Jesus is father, father is Jesus, they are one. holy spirit as well. [reference: his second arguement on the first round]
definition of wikipedia does not say such, but if my opponent believes in that way, ok, no problem. I will argue considering Jesus as father and spirit as well.

against this case, I am going to bring one arguement:
NIV JOHN20:17
"17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’"
now, if Jesus and father [holy spirit as well] is one, it means that: "where is Jesus, there is father, where is father there is Jesus", "what Jesus is doing is what father is doing, what father is doing is waht Jesus is doing"

but, when we read John 20:17, is this verse is reasonable to deduce that it contradicts the arguement of PRO?
if Jesus and father was one Jesus wouldnot have said: "for I have not yet ascended to the Father"
because anywhere Jesus is present, he is with father according to the definition of PRO, Jesus is himself father but Jesus says "I have not yet ascended to father". reading this, we can conclude that Jesus and father are seperate.

2)second arguement I am going to present is:
"21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

now, if Jesus and father was one or Jesus was god, he would not have said it.
a) If Jesus and father are one, then Jesus contradicts logic. he says: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." here, referring Jesus as god is equal to referring to father since he was himself father/god.
b) in case Jesus is father himself, then here he is contradicting himself, since he was a father, it is irrational to say: "but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." the will of my father he says, if he is his own father, then he would not make diffrence between the will of Jesus vs the will of Father.

these two is enoguh I think. I wanna add:

3)one of the most widely used arguement for trinity if not the most one is:
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1john5:7
with this verse christians try to support trinity.
my opinion about it: in this verse it can not be seen anywhere that Jesus Christ is God or can be associated with God or being an equal to God. even more, when you read the verse before it, it is reasonable to deduce that that verse says Jesus is man, not god.
"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
when you read it in context, more than trinity, this passage seems to be supporting the personhood of Jesus, not his godness.


these are enough.

if my opponent forfeits in this round too, I am not going to set arguements in the next one. I am just going to write something so that the time will not be wasted.

daley

Pro

daley forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Artur

Con

if my opponent still forfeits and leaves no reply, then all I can do is to hope that the aim the debate had been met and you have enjoyed this.

to not become tie, vote CON
daley

Pro

daley forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Artur 3 years ago
Artur
@abraralam, can you give me a reference for the things you said? from authoritive, objective scientif source? not a site of islamic group or team.
Posted by Artur 3 years ago
Artur
@abraralam, are you advertising your religion? I know about your religion too, I have read about it, I have read the quran, I dont think that islam is the true one, if you want we can debate it. I will challenge you after this debate, do you want it?

Btw, I see islam as the most logical/rational religion but not the truth.
Posted by abraralam 3 years ago
abraralam
Natural, Neutral and Irrefutable Proofs on Truth of Islam
The Earth: (1)
The Earth is a nature. It cannot tell a lie. It cannot favor or support wrong thinking or wrong beliefs or wrong lifestyles. It is 100% true and neutral. This obeys only true God or true followers of God. It doesn't obey any other fabricated Gods or any followers of fabricated Gods or any Atheists.
The irrefutable proof on above commentary is that there are hundreds of fresh dead bodies with fresh blood of Muslim Martyrs and saints who are preserved from decay in their graves since centuries and years without used any chemicals. Once we had dug their graves for any reasons, we found them in above condition, our doctors examined them and there are thousands of eyewitnesses too. We will not dig their graves again for every person on his desire now because you non-Muslims are 5 billion at this time in the world.
So, if you are sincere for truth, but you do not trust us, then contact us with your doctors, researchers and media team about the research of these fresh dead bodies. If you refuted above research, we will pay you 1 million dollars and we will be ready for any punishment from you in front of world media otherwise accept our research and enter in Islam. Do not see condition of some bad Muslims because the Islam is perfect, but all Muslims are not perfect.
According to my research there is no fresh dead body with fresh blood of any Atheists and Non-Muslims that is preserved from decay under the Earth or on the Earth since centuries and years without used any chemicals. So it is 100% proof that there are no other Gods except Almighty Allah and the nature Earth doesn't support or obey any fabricated Gods (except Almighty Allah) or followers of fabricated Gods or Atheists.
Posted by abraralam 3 years ago
abraralam
The Air: (2)
The Air is a nature. It cannot tell a lie. It cannot favor or support wrong thinking or wrong beliefs or wrong lifestyles. It is 100% true and neutral. It obeys only true God or true followers of God. It doesn't obey any other fabricated Gods or any followers of fabricated Gods or any Atheists.
The 100% proof on it is that if you leave intact dead bodies of all soldiers on the Earth who fought against each other in the name of their Gods and religion, then after death only Muslim Martyrs will remain in fresh condition with fresh blood and their enemies will decay.
There are two questions to all Atheists and Non-Muslims:
1) The Muslim soldiers who are slain in the way of Islam, why their dead bodies remain in fresh condition with fresh blood? And, all Atheists and all Non-Muslims soldiers who are murdered in the way of their religions, why their dead bodies do not remain in fresh condition with fresh blood?
2) Why the God did not preserve your soldiers' dead bodies who sacrificed for Him and why the God of Islam Almighty Allah preserved the dead bodies with fresh blood of those Muslim soldiers who sacrificed for Him?
Posted by abraralam 3 years ago
abraralam
The Fire: (3)
It is perfect that the Fire is a nature. It does not have any capacity to save any human body in it. So, if a Muslim goes in it without using any chemicals and he is immune to burn, then it will be a miracle and a 100% proof on truth of Islam. And, look how intransigents are majority of Atheists and Non-Muslims that they do not agree to demonstrate such miracle and if we Muslims are ready to demonstrate such miracle (by the mercy of Allah) then they are not even willing to convert to Islam.
Dear Atheists and non-Muslims, I ask you that if a Muslim goes in Fire without using any chemical on his body in front of world media and he is immune to burn in it, then will you all convert to Islam or not?
If yes, then fix a time, date and place and start announcement in whole world because you are 5 billion and it is impossible that we enter in Fire for every Atheists and Non-Muslims for proving the truth of Islam.
Posted by abraralam 3 years ago
abraralam
The Water: (4)
The water is a nature. Our claim is that it only obeys the God of Islam or only true followers of God of Islam. So please study following research and event that is proof on our claim
Prophet Moses and his followers (peace be upon them) were escaping from Egypt. When they reached to the Red Sea, they prayed to Almighty Allah. Allah the exalted said to Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) to hit the Red Sea with his staff. When the Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) hit the Red Sea, then sea split in two parts and they found the open path to cross the sea. So, the Prophet Moses and his followers (peace be upon them) crossed the sea.
The Pharaoh Ramesses and his army who were chasing the Prophet Moses and his followers (peace be upon them) reached to Red Sea. They found the open path, so they walked on dry ground following them, but when they reached in the middle of Red Sea, the sea joined back on them and they drown in it.
After this event, Almighty Allah saved the dead body of Pharaoh forever as a sign for Atheists and Non-Muslims.
So according to head of archaeologist and anatomical scientists the Professor Maurice Bucaille (who converted to Islam after his research) and according to Holy Quran, Pharaoh Ramesses died in the Red Sea following the Prophet Moses and his followers (peace be upon them).
For details on research of Professor Maurice Bucaille on this event please study "The Dead body of Pharaoh" in the article section on www.rightfulreligion.com.
Commentary on this event:
(1) This event is 100% true. So this event proves that there is existence of a God Almighty Allah (who is God of Islam and the God of Prophet Moses) because the Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) hit the red sea via his staff by the order of Almighty Allah and the red sea obeyed the Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) and his God Almighty Allah.
(2) This event also proves that water obeys the God Almighty Allah and His true followers because when the Prophet Moses (peac
Posted by abraralam 3 years ago
abraralam
" Gospel of John chapter no 14, verse no 28.... Jesus said: My father is greater than I." Because this verse says clearly that Jesus is great and his father is greater. It is perfect according to commonsense that great person and a greater person can not be equal in power and they are different persons not one. Please tell me if you say that your brother is older than you, then any one who have sense can say that you and your brother are one.?

So, either your Bible is a mixed book and has contradiction in it or either your belief is wrong. And then where is your belief of trinity? Can you refute this verse from Bible? Remeber, if your beliefs will not be true you will not be saved from Hell hereafter.

Holy Quran Surah no 4 verse no 171,
"0 people of the Book, be not excessive in your Faith and do not say about Allah anything but the truth. The Masih 'fsa, the son of Maryam, is only a Messenger of
Allah and His word He delivered to Maryam, and a spirit from Him. So, believe in Allah and His Messengers. And do not say 'Three". Stop it. That is good for you. Allah is the only One God. He is far too pure to have a son. To Him belongs what is in the heavens and what is in the earth. And Allah is enough to trust in."

So, Jesus (peace be upon him) is only a great Messenger of Allah, His word, His spirit but he isn"t a God or son of God or third of the three. So you can love him , serve him and remember him, but you can not worship him. You should worship his God Almighty Allah because he worshipped Him.
Posted by Artur 3 years ago
Artur
5 is good.
Posted by xXCryptoXx 3 years ago
xXCryptoXx
Lower this to three rounds and I'll take it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 3 years ago
Buckethead31594
ArturdaleyTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: I'm surprised of Pro's actions. Obvious forfeit equates to obvious lack of conduct points. Con's arguments were better, as well as utilized their sources effectively.