The Instigator
justice_plate
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
DetectableNinja
Con (against)
Winning
32 Points

twilight fans and Bieber fans are not a cult

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
DetectableNinja
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/28/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,257 times Debate No: 20095
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (7)

 

justice_plate

Pro

i am sick of hearing people calling twilight fans and Justin Bieber fans a cult. I think they are just people that love them so much and their is nothing wrong with that.

i also hear that twilight fans and Justin Bieber fans are rigging award ceremonies so they win which i know is simply not true.

in this debate The Contender will argue and provide evidence that both twilight fans and Justin Bieber fans are becoming or already are a cult.

I will argue that they just loving fans and provide evidence for that as well.

feel free to start arguing in the first round
DetectableNinja

Con

I thank justice_plate for the opportunity to debate this very important topic. Before his opening round 2 argument, I shall be clearing up some ideas surrounding this debate before the debate even begins.

The Burden of Proof

Readers, in the case of voting on this debate, it will be important to look at who has the burden of proof (hereafter referred to as the BoP). In this debate, Pro is affirming a negative statement. He is positively affirming the claim that Twilight fans and Justin Beiber fans (hereafter referred to as JB fans) are not cults or cultist in nature. Thus Pro shoulders a greater load of the BoP, largely in that he has to affirm his resolution in both the cases of JB fans as well as Twilight fans to win this debate--whereas I merely need to negate his claims about Twilight and JB fans not being cultist. Note that I only need to show that one group is not not cultist in nature (in other words, prove one is cultist in nature) to win this debate. Now, on to some definitions.

Definitions

cult (n) -
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion [1]

fanatic (adj. describing n) - marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion [2]

Therefore, a Twilight fan is hereafter defined as a person who has a excessive enthusiasm/intense uncritical devotion for the Twilight saga, written by Stephanie Meyer. Similarly, a JB fan is hereafter defined as a person who has an excessive enthusiasm/intense uncritical devotion of the popular music artist Justin Beiber.


Thank you, and I await my opponent's opening argument.


Sources

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Debate Round No. 1
justice_plate

Pro

know that when I said cult i ment the evil kind. Lots of so people these days say twilight fans and Bieber fans are violent, bias and demand that other people to love twilight and Bieber as well. Con you must prove this is true.

for my proof watch the first video. you will see that twilight fans are just hyperactive and are very passionate about the series they love. they are not violent or bias at all.

now watch the second video and you will see that Justin Bieber fans too are not violent and bias. just hyperactive and are very passionate about him.

con must now prove that the fans are violent, bias and demand that other people to love twilight and Bieber as well. That is the kind of cult people are saying they are becoming.
DetectableNinja

Con

I thank my opponent for his opening statement. Before I present my opening argument, I shall talk about the state of the definitions thus far, as well as the Burden of Proof.

Definitions

First, it is important to point out that Pro has not addressed my definition of "fan." This indicates that he does, indeed, agree with it. The definition stands.

In fact, the only gripe he has is with my definition of "cult." However, readers, his qualm holds little water. He not only provideds no solid definition ("the evil kind" is far too vague), but provides no sources for neither his definition, nor the concept that this is what people ar saying Twilight and JB fans are like. Conversely, I have provided a clear defnition which creates a brighter line betwen what IS a cult, and what is not. Not only that, but I have also provided a reasonable source to back up my claim, as the Merriam-Webster dictionary is one of good reputation

Furthermore, readers, allowing Pro to try and provide a defintion now, in his last round of debating would be unfair. Even allowing a possible change in definitions will, by proxy, change the entire debate--this is unfair to the Con. I should not be punished ith having to address a completely new set of arguments because Pro neglected to properly provide a counter definition at the appropriae time. Therefore, the definitions provided by myself are what must be used to ensure a fair and reasonable debate.


Con's Burden of Proof

Pro makes quite a lot of directives as to what I must prove. However, at the same time, it appears that his whole reasoning behind what I must prove is founded in assertions that are unfounded in and of themselves. My overall qualm with this is that Pro makes little use of logic in regard to the resolution to support his belief of what I must prove. I, on the other hand, have shown in Round one what we must prove using logic regarding the resolution, as well as the very concepts of "Pro" and "Con." To refresh your memory, it was the idea that I only need to show that ONE of the groups is a cult to win. Remember, the resolution makes use of the word "and." And, agian, to restate, I'll be using my definition of cult, which, as I've stated earlier, is still the preferable definition.


Opening Argument

Contention 1: The definition of "fan" implies a cultish nature.

Earlier, I noted an importance in the fact that my opponent has not challenged my definition of "fan," thereby accepting it. It is also important to remember that I have aequately defended my definition of "cult" as preferable to Pro's.

This is imporant because, as the title of this contention states, the definition of "fan," was a person "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion" toward Twilight (in the case of Twilight fans), and Justin Beiber (in the case of JB fans). Also remember that the definition of a cult was "great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work," as well as "a
usually small group of people characterized by such devotion." Now that these definitions are fresh in our minds, I present two syllogisms to sum up Contention 1:

(P1) Fanatic is an adjective describing a noun which is marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion.
(P2) Twilight and JB fans are fanatic.
(C1) Therefore, Twilight and JB fans are people marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion for Twilight and Justin Beiber respectively.

Premise 1 was proven by my definition of "fanatic" in R1, which went unchallenged. Premise 2 is proven likewise; "fanatic" is the adjective that describes the noun (this concept was also uncontested). Conclusion 1 follows logically from P1 and P2. This first syllogism's conclusion then becomes the first premise of the next syllogism:

(P1) Twilight and JB fans are people marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion for Twilight and Justin Beiber respectively.
(P2) A cult is a great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book), as well as a (usually small) group of people characterized by such devotion.
(C2) Therefore, Twilight and JB fans make up cults in devotion to Twilight and Justin Beiber respectively, and are cultish in nature.

Premise 1 of the second syllogism was proven in the first. Premise 2 was proven through my definition of a cult in R1, which I have shown to be preferable. Conclusion 2 follows logically from P1 and P2. Thus the resolution is negated.

It may also be important to note that the definition of fanatic even meets Pro's demand in R1 that I prove Twilight/JB fans to be "bias." "Bias" is defined in the Merriam-Webster dictionary as "an inclination of temperament or outlook;
especially: a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment" [1]. As the definiton of fanatic, as well as common sense tell us, fanaticism is marked by an "often intense uncritical devotion." This, as common snse also tells us, implies bias. So, if my two syllogisms weren't enough for you, my definition of fanatic also meets Pro's demand for proof of bias.

Contention 2: There are examples of Twilight and JB fans becoming violent and malicious toward non-fans.

Contention 2 is aimed at another one of Pro's demand--the concept that Twilight and JB fans are violent. Remember, readers, that I still feel as though it isn't necessary, and that my two syllogisms are indeed all that is necessary to win the debate. However, it is also more interesting to examine the fans in a less theortetical way. Basically, this contention is, as its title implies, purposed to show examples of Twilight and/or JB fans being violent.

2a: Twilight fans

The examples that I give for Twilight fans being violent are all found in source 2. In this source, we learn of several instances in which Twilight fans have, in order: shot a non-fan with a flare gun, jumped a student for writing a crtical article in a school newspaper, beat a non-fan for not finishing the book, and attempted to slit a non fan's throat [2]. The source also goes on to give another website which has a myriad more examples of violence. Pro's demand for proof that Twilight fans are violent has been fulfilled.

2b: JB fans

For JB fans, I will only be touching on one example. This involved a scandal involving the young pop star, in which a woman claimed that she was pregnant with his baby, and wanted him to take a paternity test. However, once the fans got word, this wman received a littany of hate mail and death threats [3]. For Pro to call this kind of behavior merely "very passionate" would be folly at best. No: it has been indeed shown that JB fans too are malicious and potentially violent in nature, and once again, Pro's demand has been met.


So, to sum up: not only have I proven that Twilight and JB fans are cultish in nature by their very definitions (which I have shown to be preferable), but I have also satisfied Pro's demands for showing bias and violence (which, although unecessary to meet, have indeed been adequately met) through real world examples. The resolution is once again, and definitively, negated. Thank you, and I await my opponent's reply.


Sources

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] http://io9.com...
[3] http://www.coconutcrab.co.uk...

Debate Round No. 2
justice_plate

Pro

Because of cons second contention i have no choice but to surrender this debate to con

I have never seen evidance like what con provided before. So it appears the fans are beccoming a bit cultish afterall

unfortunate.
DetectableNinja

Con

I thank my opponent for providing the opportunity to debate this subject.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Dunnuck 2 years ago
Dunnuck
Justice_plate already lost

He is changing the terms of the debate in round two. Ne never specified "evil cult" and no one is saying the fans are "Evil". Just...stupid...moronic...fanatic...cultish
Posted by Lord_Logic 2 years ago
Lord_Logic
Round 1 definition easily states Con a win for this debate. Unless Pro can do something otherwise.
Posted by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
cult: A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
Posted by Lord_Logic 2 years ago
Lord_Logic
I would take this if justice_plate hadn't changed the contender rulers: age, number of debates, percentiles...
Posted by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
this will be fun...
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
justice_plateDetectableNinjaTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: pity points. and he gave up.
Vote Placed by vmpire321 2 years ago
vmpire321
justice_plateDetectableNinjaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Conceded
Vote Placed by nerdykiller 2 years ago
nerdykiller
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Reasons for voting decision: um I believe I don't even have to explain.
Vote Placed by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
justice_plateDetectableNinjaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: an honorable forfeit plus my hatred for twilight and bieber = 6-1 vote for the con
Vote Placed by youngpolitic 2 years ago
youngpolitic
justice_plateDetectableNinjaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by cameronl35 2 years ago
cameronl35
justice_plateDetectableNinjaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by InVinoVeritas 2 years ago
InVinoVeritas
justice_plateDetectableNinjaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession/forfeit.