The Instigator
aria80150
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
luke23
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points

"under God"

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
luke23
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/9/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,549 times Debate No: 38699
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (1)

 

aria80150

Con

Should the words "Under God" be taken out of or replaced in our pledge of alligence?


They should remain. Many people say that these words are offensive to some religions, but I only see one religion that they could offend--Atheists--. Most other religions beveive in a god of some sort. Also, you don't have to say the words "under God" if you don't want to, but you can't force the rest of us not to say them. That would be infinging on the very first amendment ever made for The United States of America.


If someone has an opposing agrument, please respond with good reasons... Good luck.
luke23

Pro

I will accept this challenge and argue that the phrase 'under God' should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. I will demonstrate that ethically, this policy violates the establishment clause, and is discriminatory. Further, I will go a step further and question why we even have a 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

Now, please make your argument so we have even turns.
Debate Round No. 1
aria80150

Con

Why would you tak away "The Pledge of Aleagence"?

America was built on christian values. Saying "Under God" as well as "the Pledge of Aleigence" is a great part of our history. If you take away those words, you are taking away christian religeious rights. We shall no longer have the right to say it. Also many religions beleive in some sort of god. So why would we take away the statement "Under God", I thought this was a free country. It sounds more like you're trying to take away our first amendment, the freedom of speech. You can't just take away a freedom like that! It is part of our bill of rights, the first ten amendments that are supolsed to be the basis of our rights. What will happen if it is taken away? Will we just say "One nation, indevisible" ? I'm sorry if this sounds rude but thats just stupid! We have the freedom of speech we can choose wether we will or will not say those two words. If we aren't allowed to say "under God" what next? They won't let us say "God bless America" too? Don't you want the all powerful God to bless this nation? I certinlly do.
luke23

Pro

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." -Treaty of Tripoli, 1796.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu...

Now further, what did most of our founders believe? Deism. That there was a God, who created things, but wasn't active in our lives. Thomas Jefferson famously made his own version of the bible and kept copies of numerous religious texts.

Let's take a minute here to look at what the Pledge of Allegiance is. It's a loyalty oath.

Shall we examine another famous oath?

"Ich schw"re bei Gott diesen heiligen Eid, da" ich meinem Volk und Vaterland allzeit treu und redlich dienen und als tapferer und gehorsamer Soldat bereit sein will, jederzeit f"r diesen Eid mein Leben einzusetzen."

If the fact we're all forced to pledge loyalty every day in school doesn't frighten you, then I have to say I'm a little worried. But what's worse is the ramification.

As a religious person, you have the freedom to practice your faith. You can wear a crucifix or a hijab, you can go to church or synagogue, have a holi festival. What you can't do is force your views on anyone else. Essentially what adding God to a loyalty oath does is force the belief in one monotheistic deity on everyone. Further, some religions consider their god to have specific names. If you consider any name interchangeable, then you wouldn't object to 'One nation, under Ahuramazda,' correct? Yet, if we used the Arabic word Allah, then you would probably scream about your first amendment rights being violated.

How do we accommodate people of all faiths?

Either we take out mention of religious beliefs, or we just get rid of the creepy loyalty vow all together.

Now as to your rights, they're fine. For you. But when you force someone else to say your words, to profess your beliefs, then you take away their freedoms.

You can go ahead and say 'God bless America' to whoever you want, as long as you don't force everyone to say it as a greeting. It's very, very simple. As long as it affects just you, it is allowed. As soon as it requires someone else to do something, it is not permissible.
Debate Round No. 2
aria80150

Con

Why would you take away "The Pledge of Aleagence"?

America was built on christian values. Saying "Under God" as well as "the Pledge of Aleigence" is a great part of our history. If you take away those words, you are taking away christian religeious rights. We shall no longer have the right to say it. Also many religions beleive in some sort of god. So why would we take away the statement "Under God", I thought this was a free country. It sounds more like you're trying to take away our first amendment, the freedom of speech. You can't just take away a freedom like that! It is part of our bill of rights, the first ten amendments that are supolsed to be the basis of our rights. What will happen if it is taken away? Will we just say "One nation, indevisible" ? I'm sorry if this sounds rude but thats just stupid! We have the freedom of speech we can choose wether we will or will not say those two words. If we aren't allowed to say "under God" what next? They won't let us say "God bless America" too? Don't you want the all powerful God to bless this nation? I certianlly do.
luke23

Pro

You literally copied and pasted your last argument. That's not right. But it gives me more space to debunk you.

Why take away the Pledge?

1. The only other nation I know of to require loyalty oaths is Nazi Germany. I don't want to emulate them.
2. Let's look at the text.

I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Do you find it a little odd we're pledging loyalty to a flag? Or that we're saying this country can never be divided, on pain of eternal damnation? As we have just admitted the federal government is sanctioned by God. Then we say there is liberty and justice for all. Well historically that isn't true. I'm sure in the future it won't always be true.

The whole idea of 'my country right or wrong' is a cop-out to justify bad behavior. Fact is, we need to stand up for principles, and not governments.
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DBowDynamo 3 years ago
DBowDynamo
the wrong person was debating against luke. The debate wasn't won based on the sides alone, the one instigator just clearly was not ready for the subject. If he would've taken the time to review the information he had, he could have won easily.
Posted by Ian159 3 years ago
Ian159
I guess this website doesn't support accents. The " marks in my French sentence are supposed to be a c with an accent cedille.
Posted by Ian159 3 years ago
Ian159
I need to check myself! I mean con and typos in my vote. Also, no. That does not make you French. That's like me saying "Je parle fran"ais, alors je suis fran"ais." You are simply of French descent, which I find cool anyway.
Posted by aria80150 3 years ago
aria80150
whateva you say...
Posted by luke23 3 years ago
luke23
You are not French. You are American. You may be of French descent, but that does not make you French.

I'm out.
Posted by aria80150 3 years ago
aria80150
thank you very much... jeune homme!
Posted by aria80150 3 years ago
aria80150
Noo I was born in America but my mom was 25% French and my dad was 75% French. I am French. I just don't speak it yet. But I AM FRENCH.
Posted by luke23 3 years ago
luke23
If you were French, you would speak French. Vous-etes americaine, vraiment.
Posted by aria80150 3 years ago
aria80150
And I was talking about the pronunciation, not the spelling thank you very much
Posted by aria80150 3 years ago
aria80150
Really that maters soo much I am French but I don't speak it, ovbiously... please comment on my argument, not each word, thanks
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ian159 3 years ago
Ian159
aria80150luke23Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was very unprepared. And re-copied their argument, which gave pro better conduct and argument. Con also had typos and numerous grammar issues.