The Instigator
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points
The Contender
polticialwiz
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

universal health care in America

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/31/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,356 times Debate No: 19065
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

16kadams

Con

good luck and have fun. 1 round opening argument no rebuttals. 2 round second argument (back up yours, add on to it Rebuttals) 3 round rebuttals 4 ending argument rebuttals

"Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc. There's an entitlement mentality in this country that believes the government should give us a number of benefits such as "free" health care. But the government must pay for this somehow. What good would it do to wipe out a few hundred dollars of monthly health insurance premiums if our taxes go up by that much or more? If we have to cut AIDS research or education spending, is it worth it?

Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility. At first glance, it would appear universal health care would increase flexibility. After all, if government paid for everything under one plan, you could in theory go to any doctor. However, some controls are going to have to be put in to keep costs from exploding. For example, would "elective" surgeries such as breast implants, wart removal, hair restoration, and lasik eye surgery be covered? Then you may say, that's easy, make patients pay for elective surgery. Although some procedures are obviously not needed, who decides what is elective and what is required? What about a breast reduction for back problems? What about a hysterectomy for fibroid problems? What about a nose job to fix a septum problem caused in an accident? Whenever you have government control of something, you have one item added to the equation that will most definitely screw things up--politics. Suddenly, every medical procedure and situation is going to come down to a political battle. The compromises that result will put in controls that limit patient options. The universal system in Canada forces patients to wait over 6 months for a routine pap smear. Canada residents will often go to the U.S. or offer additional money to get their health care needs taken care of.

Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care. When government controls things, politics always seep into the decision-making. Steps will have to be taken to keep costs under control. Rules will be put in place as to when doctors can perform certain expensive tests or when drugs can be given. Insurance companies are already tying the hands of doctors somewhat. Government influence will only make things worse, leading to decreased doctor flexibility and poor patient care.

And you pay for the unhealthy people. Lets say your fit and eat well, almost never sick. Well you have to pay through taxes the hobo down the street whose a tobacco smoker and has become obese through cheep food from mcCdonalds. Sound good? We may have to pay for them in the emergency room, but as I said if he gets poor patient care they'll see him once twice thrice and so on. All of which you pay for.

http://www.articlesbase.com...
http://oneminute.rationalmind.net...
polticialwiz

Pro

There are fourty Million uninsured American citizens who need Health Care. Health Care premiums continue to go up and climb faster that the rate of inflation. Many businesses do not even offer health plan coverage, those that do will ofte pass the cost of it to the employee. Even though people with no health care can go to the hospital when they become ill, any cost not covered by them get passed on to the rest of us in higher taxes.
Debate Round No. 1
16kadams

Con

"There are forty Million uninsured American citizens who need Health Care. Health Care premiums continue to go up and climb faster that the rate of inflation. Many businesses do not even offer health plan coverage, those that do will often pass the cost of it to the employee. Even though people with no health care can go to the hospital when they become ill, any cost not covered by them get passed on to the rest of us in higher taxes."

I agree, but I do not believe in universal healthcare. Why change the system that ruins the whole purpose, good healthcare. People come from Canada , England, and the rest of Europe to come to America. Why? Because the line in those places are to long. You know Romney care, it's almost exactly like obamacare and socialized medicine. Well one Romney adviser met with the president to make the bill. And since they are the same here's a video that shows the system and how it fails:

Here's a site that shows 10 reasons that obamacare is a mess: http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com...

And here's a site that shows you that obamacare helps ruin the economy restricting job growth: http://www.bnet.com...

So since I decree that Universal Healthcare isn't that good I will ofter an alternative. It may not be the best, but it is better then your idea currently. They do this in my home town in Texas, or used too. It's where you have a private hospital, people with insurance go there and get some of the best care in the country. But next to it is a public hospital. Where an intern operates on you and If he messes up you can only sue him for 250,000 dollars. No matter what. This may sound cruel but it works. Obviously you have a fully trained physician overlooking the intern to make sure he doesn't screw up. So people who pay that good healthcare, people who don't get healthcare that is O.K. not great but it will keep you well. If you disagree it's like saying that If pay 500,000 dollars on a Ferrari I should get equal luxury,service, and handling/speed as a 1970 hippy van.

Here's a video that shows that the obamacare plan is SUPER expensive: Hence prices rise.
polticialwiz

Pro

The secod point is that businesses and individuals are having trouble affording health care. Businesses and indidviduals that keep their health plans have to pay a much higher amount. If a business must spend more on health care cost, the it has less money for raises, investments, and more employees. The employee or indidvidual who has to pay high permiums has less money to spend on food, housing cost, and other purchases. If they have to spend less money, it only hurts the economy. The cos of Health care our economic well being.

Third point is we could eliminate all the duplicate paperwork involved everytime you submit a insurace claim. Each and every time we go to the docto you have to fill out a medical history form. The system in place now has doctor's office keeping medical records. If we locate all records in one place, we could eliminate the eed for submission of isurance forms. Then we could stop having insurance compaines approving or denying a claim. Checks would not have to be mailed or patients send bills. Overall there wouldn't have to be a need for maintaining insurance information or ever submit a claim again.
Debate Round No. 2
16kadams

Con

I'm going to touch on the deny claim you have. The goverment still can deny you! I have already said that the goverment will pick and choose what to pay for. At least our system now covers your lasik or you nose that was hurt in an accident. but politics shouldn't be even near healthcare (except for seniors). I already talked about how they choose what to do. With a normal insurance plan you have some leverage on debateing them, the goverment well you can't bargin with them.

You say that universal healthcare helps buissnesses, but that is not the case. It raises taxes, higher taxes means poorer buissnes owners, poorer buissnes=less employment, less esmoloyment=bad economy, bad economy= america pissed off. It's simple, really simple.

You still haven't attacked my other claims, my alternative, cost etc. So ALL, not some but ALL of my arguments still stand.
polticialwiz

Pro

Its obvious that my oppoenent just does not understand the concept of the Federal Government and Healthcare. If the Gov't denies anyone they can and will be punish under my proposal. Gov't can't always be in control.

Secondly, my oppoenet has never spoken to a group of small business owners like I have. If he did he would know that Universal Health care would help small businesses provide full insurances for its employers.

The fourt point on Universal healthcare would have to have a national database availible for Physicans. This system would allow doctors to better track an indidvidual's past medical history. The information stored in one place would be more accurate, and that would lead to doctors being able to better diagnose a patient. If the CDC were able to acces the information i a National database, they would be able to better track the incidents of certain diseases. The centralized system would allow better data analysis that could pibly lead to medical advances.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I have a you tube video on this now:
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
government run they call it both
Posted by logicrules 5 years ago
logicrules
free or universal....which is it?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by GWindeknecht1 5 years ago
GWindeknecht1
16kadamspolticialwizTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Easy con win
Vote Placed by E.BurnumIII 5 years ago
E.BurnumIII
16kadamspolticialwizTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con made good arguments and Pro seemed to be clueless about the topic.
Vote Placed by Spritle 5 years ago
Spritle
16kadamspolticialwizTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro doesn't refute some of Con's arguments. Overall, Con had better points and a more persuasive argument.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
16kadamspolticialwizTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Many of con's arguments went uncontested. Pro's idea that the elimination of paperwork could speed things up was laughable, also i found the lego demonstration enjoyable