The Instigator
tarsjake
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points
The Contender
Davethefave
Pro (for)
Losing
20 Points

universal health care

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,571 times Debate No: 1399
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (12)

 

tarsjake

Con

universal health care does not work. in canada it can take 10 months to see a doctor. It will cost much more in taxes then if we leave it the way it is now.
Davethefave

Pro

I agree because that is just wrong. Some people could be on their death bed and they would not know. Then just one day they fall to the ground and people don't know why they had died.
Debate Round No. 1
tarsjake

Con

there is no reason that hard working, constantly exercising americans should have to pay for health coverage for a life long smoker
Davethefave

Pro

Exactly why pay when they are killing them selves. If they are a smoker like you said then it's their own fault of them dieing.
Debate Round No. 2
tarsjake

Con

universal health care would just be one more thing the government would mess up and make less efficient. Medical bills are very expensive but doctors had to go to school and intern for up to 12 years. So naturally they should make good money. Universal health care would set us back in medicine not forward.
Davethefave

Pro

Exactly. I agree. If the people have to wait 10 months to see a doctor. And when they finally see the doctors they have to pay so much money that should not be paid. They should not have to pay at all for the poor treatment they are given. The doctors do go to school for a long time but what's the point they see patients for very little time. While they were in school they should of learned about the rights people are given.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by nevrfaded 8 years ago
nevrfaded
Just be consistent on socialized medicine. If you believe it is evil and the US government is incompetant on everything, then we must do away with medicare, and the veterans health system as well. Tell seniors that free medicare is evil and forcing them to live like people in England and Canada. Surley they will agree with your logic and want the system done away with. The over 37 million americans with no coverage will surely agree as well, better to have no coverage than coverage provided by the state.
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
You're right. You can't turn to the government for everything. I never said you could. But the purpose of government is to rectify market failures within the economy. There is no better example of a market failure than in health care. The structure of the system itself is what has led to the disarray within the system. Doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, drug and device manufacturers all play tug of war amongst themselves to make the most profit, while the patients are caught in the middle. It's what causes doctors and hospitals to technically commit insurance fraud when they submit certain charges to insurances. It's what leads hospitals to jack up their rates for certain procedures. It's what leads insurance companies to reward claims handlers who reject the greatest number of needy claimants and increase deductible and copay rates. It's also what causes pharmaceuticals to spend over 30% of revenues on advertising and administration, while only spending 13% of revenues on R&D. A single payer universal system with proper oversight would rectify all of these problems while saving the individual and country billions of dollars. It makes so much sense to have a single payer system that it's borderline insane not to adopt it.
Posted by tarsjake 8 years ago
tarsjake
How on earth can davethefave be winning? He agreed with everything i said?
Posted by tarsjake 8 years ago
tarsjake
you can't turn to the government for everything
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
Actually, it was the communist countries that failed. Countries that are more generally considered socialist, such as Sweden, Canada, or really any country with an extensive public program system, are doing just fine. In fact, we are the only industrialized Western country that does not have a universal health care system. Would you say Germany, France or Great Britain have failed? I think not. The amount we pay in taxes would be negligible to the amount we would save on medical expenses. Hospitals and doctors would also get paid more frequently and not have to hassle with HMOs, or any insurance company that cuts them off at the knees (and denies claims as a matter of course) all in the name of profits. Therefore, taxes on hospital and doctor profits, as well as sales taxes on the insane amount drug and device manufacturers spend on advertising and lobbying, would generate most of the taxes we would need to implement a universal system. If any taxes were needed on individuals, they could be imposed progressively on those who ca alrwady afford it. Beyond that, the amount we would save on no more out of pocket expenses, no more copays or deductibles, no premiums, lower drug prices and preventative care would more than make up for whatever additional individual taxes would be needed. We're the wealthiest country in the world. We, therefore, deserve better than a health care system that is only the best money can buy. We are 37th in the world for health care system performance, right between Costa Rica and Slovenia, because of the poor's inability to access the system. That's disgusting and is only fully remedied by a universal system.
Posted by tarsjake 8 years ago
tarsjake
i know, there wasn't a debate
Posted by arrivaltime 8 years ago
arrivaltime
tars, you wouldn't be paying for your own insurance OR healthcare so I don't see the difference.
Posted by arrivaltime 8 years ago
arrivaltime
you two just wrote the most worthless debate ever
Posted by tarsjake 8 years ago
tarsjake
mindjob universal health care is a socialist idea. Guess what happend to all socialist countries? they failed. You also did not mention how much it would cost in taxes
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
This isn't even a debate. It's one guy who is regurgitating what Fox news and Rush Limbaugh tell him, and either the same guy or a trained monkey randomly hitting keys without saying anything in support of universal health care. The fact of the matter is that universal health care is the only way to get people the preventative care they need to keep small problems from ballooning into life-threatening ones.
It does not take 10 months to see a doctor in Canada, nor any other country where a comprehensive health care plan exists. The problem in Canada is that they support both private and public systems, causing most doctors to split their time between the two. Because they are free to spend however much time they want in the private sector, they tend to spend too much time privately, causing a back log in public patients that need attending. The same is true for expensive diagnostic machines, such as MRIs.
If you don't think everyone already pays for a smoker's bad life choices, or for an obese person's extra big macs, then you really have no clue what you are talking about. Their inability to get preventative care causes them to only seek help once their hearts have failed or once they have already developed diabetes. By then, no insurance will take them and they are forced to pay out of pocket. Of course, since medical inflation has increased at 2-4 times the rate of national inflation for the last 40 years, this makes them unable to pay their bills, which gets passed onto everyone else in the forms of even higher medical bills for those who can pay and rampant bankruptcies. The majority of bankruptcies in this country are actually medically related.
Our companies are also unable to compete globally because of the costs of providing health care, which ends up putting people out of work and brings the country closer to recession. Universal health care will save us money and is the best form of health care we could have.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by TheUser 2 years ago
TheUser
tarsjakeDavethefaveTied
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